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I don't think Houston would be considered a SE city either from my travels. Gulf Coast/South describes Houston perfectly. Its definitely not a "Southwestern City", at least to me its not..
Why not, when it has the architectural, ecological, climatic, and cultural traits seen in the Southeast? Houston is essentially a Southeastern city that just so happens to be west of the Mississippi.
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Originally Posted by Spade
Ok yes. Our experiences are different. But my point still stands. Louisiana as a whole is looked at as a whole and generally as Old South. While Houston does share some similarities with the Southeast, it also shares similarities with interior regions of Texas. The prairie region of Texas starts in the Houston area if I'm not mistaken.
Only the far, far, western areas of the Houston metro, like around Austin county, or so, would you even start to see any semblance of similarity with the interior Texas regions; even then, it would not be in the form of prairie, but rather Post Oak Savannah. The prairies of the Houston metro are of the coastal variety, also seen in Louisiana, and many other Southeastern states.
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Originally Posted by EasilyAmused
Frontier South is the best description I've heard in this thread.
I've spend a LOT of time in the REAL southeast. Houston feels nothing like that vibe.
You know, I too had this idea that Houston was the frontier South once. The city always put on the annual rodeo show to honor the "western heritage," and I heard so often the legends and mythologies of the Texas cowboy culture, and how it existed even in Houston.
Then I took the time to explore the city myself, and actually immerse myself in the culture, allowing me to discover the true Southeastern affinity Houston does indeed have. Just one look at the architecture of the city's historic wards, one listen to music of the city (either the zydeco, blues, or hip-hop), or an experience with the strong African-American presence, allows one to see the strong ties Houston has with cities like New Orleans, Mobile, and Charleston, over the cities in its own state. That's not even getting to the fact that ecologically and climatically, Houston is basically the Southeast.
When one of your city's nicknames is the "Magnolia City," you know for a fact that you are in the REAL Southeast. That annual farce known as the Rodeo Show can occur in the city, but anyone who pays attention can pick up how truly Southeastern the city's vibe is.
Why not, when it has the architectural, ecological, climatic, and cultural traits seen in the Southeast? Houston is essentially a Southeastern city that just so happens to be west of the Mississippi.
Only the far, far, western areas of the Houston metro, like around Austin county, or so, would you even start to see any semblance of similarity with the interior Texas regions; even then, it would not be in the form of prairie, but rather Post Oak Savannah. The prairies of the Houston metro are of the coastal variety, also seen in Louisiana, and many other Southeastern states.
You know, I too had this idea that Houston was the frontier South once. The city always put on the annual rodeo show to honor the "western heritage," and I heard so often the legends and mythologies of the Texas cowboy culture, and how it existed even in Houston.
Then I took the time to explore the city myself, and actually immerse myself in the culture, allowing me to discover the true Southeastern affinity Houston does indeed have. Just one look at the architecture of the city's historic wards, one listen to music of the city (either the zydeco, blues, or hip-hop), or an experience with the strong African-American presence, allows one to see the strong ties Houston has with cities like New Orleans, Mobile, and Charleston, over the cities in its own state. That's not even getting to the fact that ecologically and climatically, Houston is basically the Southeast.
When one of your city's nicknames is the "Magnolia City," you know for a fact that you are in the REAL Southeast. That annual farce known as the Rodeo Show can occur in the city, but anyone who pays attention can pick up how truly Southeastern the city's vibe is.
Thanks for telling me how my city is. I was born here. To compare it to Charleston is a total joke.
At this point you are just trolling.
Last edited by EasilyAmused; 07-02-2015 at 07:29 PM..
Thanks for telling me how my city is. I was born here. To compare it to Charleston is a total joke.
At this point you are just trolling.
I feel I've already given enough solid points to back up my claim at this time. Feel free to refute if you disagree; I have yet to see any real refutation of my points on this thread anyways.
Why not, when it has the architectural, ecological, climatic, and cultural traits seen in the Southeast? Houston is essentially a Southeastern city that just so happens to be west of the Mississippi.
Yea so does Dallas, you can find areas that look like places in the Southeast too, but that doesn't make it a SE city (or a southern city JK). This thread only brings out how southern Houston really is IMO, but to say its a Southeastern city I would have to say NO. To me, its a Gulf Coast/South city. I know that most cities along the Gulf Coast are located in the Southeast, but the Southeast US is only a "geographical representation" of the area. I never would say "New Orleans is a SE city" though its located in the SE Region of the US, its still a Gulf Coast/Southern city first.
Florida and Georgia are considered SE states, but these areas differ in architecture, topography, climatic, cultural traits & even demographics.
New Orleans and Houston have more similarities than Houston and Atlanta IMO. These cities are located on the Gulf Coast and share things like Rodeos (very common in the Gulf Coast), cuisines, swamps, bayous, Mardi Gras, O/G, Cajun culture (what i like to call Cajun Cowboy culture) etc. This culture spills over in Western Mississippi (Gulf Cost Region) as well.
I use to live in the Bay Area in Houston and this area alone resembles certain areas in Pensacola, Mobile, Tampa, Biloxi and Beaumont (even though folks here hate to be grouped with Beaumont, the areas are VERY similar). Yea, some of theses areas are in the Southeast but they are not similar to Nashville, Charlotte or Atlanta. The only area that resembles the "pictured" Southeastern US in the Houston area is the North Side due to its foliage and semi hills IMO, and you have to go far North to see it too (Huntsville, Coldsprings etc.).
Maybe I'm only speaking in a "cultural" prospective, but even in a geographic prospective I still wouldn't consider it a typical SE city..
Yea so does Dallas, you can find areas that look like places in the Southeast too, but that doesn't make it a SE city (or a southern city JK). This thread only brings out how southern Houston really is IMO, but to say its a Southeastern city I would have to say NO. To me, its a Gulf Coast/South city. I know that most cities along the Gulf Coast are located in the Southeast, but the Southeast US is only a "geographical representation" of the area. I never would say "New Orleans is a SE city" though its located in the SE Region of the US, its still a Gulf Coast/Southern city first.
Florida and Georgia are considered SE states, but these areas differ in architecture, topography, climatic, cultural traits & even demographics.
New Orleans and Houston have more similarities than Houston and Atlanta IMO. These cities are located on the Gulf Coast and share things like Rodeos (very common in the Gulf Coast), cuisines, swamps, bayous, Mardi Gras, O/G, Cajun culture (what i like to call Cajun Cowboy culture) etc. This culture spills over in Western Mississippi (Gulf Cost Region) as well.
I use to live in the Bay Area in Houston and this area alone resembles certain areas in Pensacola, Mobile, Tampa, Biloxi and Beaumont (even though folks here hate to be grouped with Beaumont, the areas are VERY similar). Yea, some of theses areas are in the Southeast but they are not similar to Nashville, Charlotte or Atlanta. The only area that resembles the "pictured" Southeastern US in Houston area is the North Side due to its foliage and semi hills IMO, and you have to go far North to see it too (Huntsville, Coldsprings etc.).
Maybe I'm only speaking in a "cultural" prospective, but even in a geographic prospective I still wouldn't consider it a typical SE city..
If any rebuttal for why Houston wouldnt be considered a Southeastern city should be taken seriously, its this one, in my opinion...pretty accurate and well thought out dissent for the most part...although I disagree that one has to go all the way to Huntsville, and certainly not to Coldspring to find typical Southeastern foliage and hills...
Maybe Huntsville does have a monopoly on hills...but for typical Southeastern foliage, in my experience that starts as soon as Spring, the Woodlands and Conroe (Conroe/Willis does have a few small hills)
Yea so does Dallas, you can find areas that look like places in the Southeast too, but that doesn't make it a SE city (or a southern city JK). This thread only brings out how southern Houston really is IMO, but to say its a Southeastern city I would have to say NO. To me, its a Gulf Coast/South city. I know that most cities along the Gulf Coast are located in the Southeast, but the Southeast US is only a "geographical representation" of the area. I never would say "New Orleans is a SE city" though its located in the SE Region of the US, its still a Gulf Coast/Southern city first.
So it seems like your case against Houston being the Southeast is strictly in geographical terms. That I never disputed; I already acknowledge that, geographically, Houston is in the South Central US, if the Mississippi River is used as that dividing line. With its location on the Gulf Coast, Houston can also be considered a Gulf Southern city. Those facts I never disputed.
But, basically, all I am saying is that as long as places in Arkansas and Louisiana are considered Southeastern, Houston, along with the rest of Eastern Texas, can be grouped with the Southeast as well.
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Originally Posted by llmrkc07
Florida and Georgia are considered SE states, but these areas differ in architecture, topography, climatic, cultural traits & even demographics.
New Orleans and Houston have more similarities than Houston and Atlanta IMO. These cities are located on the Gulf Coast and share things like Rodeos (very common in the Gulf Coast), cuisines, swamps, bayous, Mardi Gras, O/G, Cajun culture (what i like to call Cajun Cowboy culture) etc. This culture spills over in Western Mississippi (Gulf Cost Region) as well.
When I compared Houston to the Southeast, I was strictly making the comparison with the coastal areas of the region, such as Mobile, Tampa, Jacksonville, Savannah, etc. Of course Houston has more similarities with New Orleans than with Atlanta; for starters, Atlanta isn't on the coast like the former two cities are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by llmrkc07
I use to live in the Bay Area in Houston and this area alone resembles certain areas in Pensacola, Mobile, Tampa, Biloxi and Beaumont (even though folks here hate to be grouped with Beaumont, the areas are VERY similar). Yea, some of theses areas are in the Southeast but they are not similar to Nashville, Charlotte or Atlanta. The only area that resembles the "pictured" Southeastern US in the Houston area is the North Side due to its foliage and semi hills IMO, and you have to go far North to see it too (Huntsville, Coldsprings etc.).
Maybe I'm only speaking in a "cultural" prospective, but even in a geographic prospective I still wouldn't consider it a typical SE city..
You seem to be focusing on the inland areas of the Southeast. The Southeast is a diverse region geographically, including both the inland areas with high mountainous terrain, rolling hills, and foliage (which you mention), and the low-lying coastal areas featuring beaches and subtropical flora. Again, the part of the Southeastern US I was comparing Houston to was strictly the coastal area, with cities like Charleston, or New Orleans. The landscape in many parts of Houston is just like that of many coastal Southeastern cities.
Now, areas of East Texas away from the coast, like Nacogdoches, or Tyler, do have similarities with the inland Southeastern cities you mention, including some hilly terrain and foliage.
And anyways, given the cultural roots of Houston, the ties it has to cities like New Orleans, Charleston, or Jacksonville are quite strong, much stronger than ties it has to even cities within its own state, like Austin, or San Antonio. So it still stands that Houston is, essentially, a Southeastern city that just so happens to be west of the Mississippi; this is the case especially if places in Arkansas and Louisiana are considered Southeastern.
If any rebuttal for why Houston wouldnt be considered a Southeastern city should be taken seriously, its this one, in my opinion...pretty accurate and well thought out dissent for the most part...although I disagree that one has to go all the way to Huntsville, and certainly not to Coldspring to find typical Southeastern foliage and hills...
Maybe Huntsville does have a monopoly on hills...but for typical Southeastern foliage, in my experience that starts as soon as Spring, the Woodlands and Conroe (Conroe/Willis does have a few small hills)
Ok yes. Our experiences are different. But my point still stands. Louisiana as a whole is looked at as a whole and generally as Old South.
Depends on what you mean by "Old South".
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While Houston does share some similarities with the Southeast, it also shares similarities with interior regions of Texas. The prairie region of Texas starts in the Houston area if I'm not mistaken.
Gulf Prairie, which also exists in Louisiana. Parts of Louisiana also shares traits with interior Texas i.e. German heritage & ranching culture.
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Originally Posted by EasilyAmused
Frontier South is the best description I've heard in this thread.
I've spend a LOT of time in the REAL southeast. Houston feels nothing like that vibe.
So have I and completely disagree. I'd bet there are many parts of Houston you haven't spent enough time in.
So it seems like your case against Houston being the Southeast is strictly in geographical terms. That I never disputed; I already acknowledge that, geographically, Houston is in the South Central US, if the Mississippi River is used as that dividing line. With its location on the Gulf Coast, Houston can also be considered a Gulf Southern city. Those facts I never disputed.
But, basically, all I am saying is that as long as places in Arkansas and Louisiana are considered Southeastern, Houston, along with the rest of Eastern Texas, can be grouped with the Southeast as well.
Not just from a geographical aspect but as far as culture too. The Latino culture is very prevalent here compared to most southeastern cities. This separates Houston from the typical Southeastern culture (Tex-Mex).
I agree with the Mississippi River as the dividing line which is also why me personally I don't really consider Louisiana nor Arkansas to be southeastern states. Thought they are included, I just don't fell as though they belong, same with any city in Texas. I agree some areas are similar, but its still very different from what you would see in cities like Nashville and Charleston.
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Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA
When I compared Houston to the Southeast, I was strictly making the comparison with the coastal areas of the region, such as Mobile, Tampa, Jacksonville, Savannah, etc. Of course Houston has more similarities with New Orleans than with Atlanta; for starters, Atlanta isn't on the coast like the former two cities are.
You seem to be focusing on the inland areas of the Southeast. The Southeast is a diverse region geographically, including both the inland areas with high mountainous terrain, rolling hills, and foliage (which you mention), and the low-lying coastal areas featuring beaches and subtropical flora. Again, the part of the Southeastern US I was comparing Houston to was strictly the coastal area, with cities like Charleston, or New Orleans. The landscape in many parts of Houston is just like that of many coastal Southeastern cities.
From my experience, New Orleans and Charleston are nothing alike. No similarities at all IMO, but i will say they are both southern cities.
I agree the SE has a very diverse topography but calling cities near the Gulf Coast "typical" southeastern, I would have to disagree.
General Southeastern cities: Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville, Charleston, Columbia, Atlanta, etc. Gulf Coast cities are different from theses cities listed culturally and geographically. I just don't think these areas should but put in the same category. Cities like Mobile, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, Gulfport, St. Petersburg etc., are very different from the typical SE cities listed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA
Now, areas of East Texas away from the coast, like Nacogdoches, or Tyler, do have similarities with the inland Southeastern cities you mention, including some hilly terrain and foliage.
And anyways, given the cultural roots of Houston, the ties it has to cities like New Orleans, Charleston, or Jacksonville are quite strong, much stronger than ties it has to even cities within its own state, like Austin, or San Antonio. So it still stands that Houston is, essentially, a Southeastern city that just so happens to be west of the Mississippi; this is the case especially if places in Arkansas and Louisiana are considered Southeastern.
Disagree with you here, Houston is more similar to San Antonio and Austin than to New Orleans, Charleston and Jacksonville. I agree they are similar as far as being "Southern" cities. (New Orleans, Charleston, Jacksonville & Houston). Lets not forget, Houston is located in Texas, which has its own distinct culture of its own, which I believe you are missing when making your conclusion. As I stated, the only statement that can be made for Houston is that its a ""southern city" but I just don't think that its culturally on par with southeastern cities, maybe in a "black" prospective but that's about it.
Also, The Woodlands & Conroe are similar to some areas of the SE, but its only really noticeable once you get into towns like Huntsville, Trinity & Nacodoches, just IMO.
Disagree with you here, Houston is more similar to San Antonio and Austin than to New Orleans, Charleston and Jacksonville. I agree they are similar as far as being "Southern" cities. (New Orleans, Charleston, Jacksonville & Houston). Lets not forget, Houston is located in Texas, which has its own distinct culture of its own, which I believe you are missing when making your conclusion. As I stated, the only statement that can be made for Houston is that its a ""southern city" but I just don't think that its culturally on par with southeastern cities, maybe in a "black" prospective but that's about it.
Also, The Woodlands & Conroe are similar to some areas of the SE, but its only really noticeable once you get into towns like Huntsville, Trinity & Nacodoches, just IMO.
As a black man from Houston, I feel more at home in places like New Orleans, and other gulf coast cities than I do in San Antonio or Austin. I don't see as much similarities in those 2 texas cities as I can see on the gulf coast.
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). This thread only brings out how southern Houston really is IMO, but to say its a Southeastern city I would have to say NO. To me, its a Gulf Coast/South city. I know that most cities along the Gulf Coast are located in the Southeast, but the Southeast US is only a "geographical representation" of the area. I never would say "New Orleans is a SE city" though its located in the SE Region of the US, its still a Gulf Coast/Southern city first.
