The Astrodome debacle

[Schumacher713]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

So now you post you want to build a convention hall in the Domes footprint? Lets see the plan ? BTW it's (Dome) only about 300,000 in floor space but its the high cieling with no columns in the way that makes the Dome space unique....

OOT, The GRB and Reliant Field ain't that pretty either...

It's high ceiling means it is expensive to heat and cool. I don't know what convention would need a 200 foot ceiling. So, it would be uniquely pointless. I just went off the numbers of how much it costs to build the GRB. I am not saying the footprint of the Dome. I actually would parking lot that. I would build the new convention center in a different location. With the added underground parking where the Dome is it would help off set parking for the foot print of a hotel or a larger convention center.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by Schumacher713

It's high ceiling means it is expensive to heat and cool. I don't know what convention would need a 200 foot ceiling. So, it would be uniquely pointless. I just went off the numbers of how much it costs to build the GRB. I am not saying the footprint of the Dome. I actually would parking lot that. I would build the new convention center in a different location. With the added underground parking where the Dome is it would help off set parking for the foot print of a hotel or a larger convention center.

The largest Convention space in the country is Mc Cormick Place in Chicago which is several times larger than the GRB, so talking about the cost of building the GRB in todays dollars is pointless as well. That 1 Billion dollar price I posted earlier probably isn't that far off, if you want to compete with cities like Chicago or Orlando in convention floor space.

The highest ceiling in Mc Cormick place however, is only 50 ft. So any convention that didn't need all that horizontal space, but does need more than 50 ft of verticle clearance, very well may choose the Dome, over any other convention space. I think perhaps building a niche space may be the best strategy in the long run..

[crbcrbrgv]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

The largest Convention space in the country is Mc Cormick Place in Chicago which is several times larger than the GRB, so talking about the cost of building the GRB in todays dollars is pointless as well. That 1 Billion dollar price I posted earlier probably isn't that far off, if you want to compete with cities like Chicago or Orlando in convention floor space.

The highest ceiling in Mc Cormick place however, is only 50 ft. So any convention that didn't need all that horizontal space, but does need more than 50 ft of verticle clearance, very well may choose the Dome, over any other convention space. I think perhaps building a niche space may be the best strategy in the long run..

Jack Lance, there is no such thing as the George R Brown convention center.

There is such a thing as a gigantic and ugly cruise ship sunk into the ground between Discovery Green and 59, however.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv

Jack Lance, there is no such thing as the George R Brown convention center.

There is such a thing as a gigantic and ugly cruise ship sunk into the ground between Discovery Green and 59, however.

OK so the Dome is ugly, the GRB is ugly, your mama is ugly, what does that have to do with anything!?
Are you suggesting we should tear down perfectly good facilities simply because they are ugly in your opinion?

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv

Jack Lance, there is no such thing as the George R Brown convention center.

There is such a thing as a gigantic and ugly cruise ship sunk into the ground between Discovery Green and 59, however.

I have to agree,
it looks pretty ugly from the highway

[Schumacher713]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

The largest Convention space in the country is Mc Cormick Place in Chicago which is several times larger than the GRB, so talking about the cost of building the GRB in todays dollars is pointless as well. That 1 Billion dollar price I posted earlier probably isn't that far off, if you want to compete with cities like Chicago or Orlando in convention floor space.

The highest ceiling in Mc Cormick place however, is only 50 ft. So any convention that didn't need all that horizontal space, but does need more than 50 ft of verticle clearance, very well may choose the Dome, over any other convention space. I think perhaps building a niche space may be the best strategy in the long run..

What on earth needs over 4 stories of clearance? What convention could this possibly be? There needs to be a niche to fill! Your best argument is we need a 200ft ceiling for a giant convention?

And, yes the GRB is really ugly. What is this 1 billion dollar figure? The GRB in today's price can't be more than double from then. I bet it is closer to 30% more.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by Schumacher713

What on earth needs over 4 stories of clearance? What convention could this possibly be? There needs to be a niche to fill! Your best argument is we need a 200ft ceiling for a giant convention?

And, yes the GRB is really ugly. What is this 1 billion dollar figure? The GRB in today's price can't be more than double from then. I bet it is closer to 30% more.

Why build another GRB? If you are now saying, we need another convention center because the convention centers we have are too small, it would be rediculas to build another center the same size of the GRB. I assume you would want to compete with the larger convention centers in other cities, and the example I used McCormick Place, is many times larger, than the GRB. So take the 104 mil it cost to build the GRB in 1987, and figure in inflation, and wa la, you now have a figure of 216 mil to build the same square footage today.Then take into account that the building you want has 4 or 5 times the square footage, and you are now approaching 1 billion.

Do the calculations yourself DollarTimes.com | Inflation Calculator

$104,000,000.00 in 1987 had the same buying power as $216,095,058.82 in 2013.

Annual inflation over this period was 2.85%

If you are saying we need to tear down the GRB too, just because you think its ugly, then you are nutts ! What else do you want to tear down either because its ugly or in your way?

You claimed to be so frugal, but your plans are getting realy , really, expensive once you show all your cards.. 270 mil is starting to sound really cheap !

P.S No the niche wouldn't be conventions that need 200 ft of clearance, it would be conventions that need more than 50 ft of clearance, and prefer the other amenities Houston has to offer..

[Schumacher713]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Why build another GRB? If you are now saying, we need another convention center because the convention centers we have are too small, it would be rediculas to build another center the same size of the GRB. I assume you would want to compete with the larger convention centers in other cities, and the example I used McCormick Place, is many times larger, than the GRB. So take the 104 mil it cost to build the GRB in 1987, and figure in inflation, and wa la, you now have a figure of 216 mil to build the same square footage today.Then take into account that the building you want has 4 or 5 times the square footage, and you are now approaching 1 billion.

Do the calculations yourself DollarTimes.com | Inflation Calculator

$104,000,000.00 in 1987 had the same buying power as $216,095,058.82 in 2013.

Annual inflation over this period was 2.85%

If you are saying we need to tear down the GRB too, just because you think its ugly, then you are nutts ! What else do you want to tear down either because its ugly or in your way?

You claimed to be so frugal, but your plans are getting realy , really, expensive once you show all your cards.. 270 mil is starting to sound really cheap !

P.S No the niche wouldn't be conventions that need 200 ft of clearance, it would be conventions that need more than 50 ft of clearance, and prefer the other amenities Houston has to offer..

I won't argue with the figure has double to build. I am not saying we need to tear down the GRB. Who said anything about that. I was just using the price it cost to build the GRB. That gives everyone an idea how much it would cost to build a brand new one. Using those numbers and doubling the cost means it is cheaper to build a new convention center than renovate the Dome. I really don't care if we have any new building at all.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by Schumacher713

I won't argue with the figure has double to build. I am not saying we need to tear down the GRB. Who said anything about that. I was just using the price it cost to build the GRB. That gives everyone an idea how much it would cost to build a brand new one. Using those numbers and doubling the cost means it is cheaper to build a new convention center than renovate the Dome. I really don't care if we have any new building at all.

I understand, but another GRB is pointless, as I know you know. So the question is do we spend the 270 mil to renovate the Dome, for this niche market I decribed. Once the Dome is demolished that ship has sailed

Granted this is somewhat speculative, since most conventions assume they are capped at a certian height, we can only guess if someone will take advantage of the extra space overhead. The most obvious show, I would think, to take advantage, would be the OTC. They currently have an outside exibition area, I assume because many of those displays are too high for Reliant Arena and of course the Dome would be very convieniant.

Who knows how many other, or future conventions will benefit from this feature of the Dome. Imagine the CSI convention? No not the TV show, but the Commercial Space Industry . Imagine 70, 80, 100 foot rockets being displayed upright, on the new Dome floor, maybe even space capsules being hung from the rafters of the Dome ceiling? It may sound like fantasy, but the new space very well could change the thinking of many a convention planning committee, and attract a market that a new bigger conventional convention space would not.

[Schumacher713]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

I understand, but another GRB is pointless, as I know you know. So the question is do we spend the 270 mil to renovate the Dome, for this niche market I decribed. Once the Dome is demolished that ship has sailed

Granted this is somewhat speculative, since most conventions assume they are capped at a certian height, we can only guess if someone will take advantage of the extra space overhead. The most obvious show, I would think, to take advantage, would be the OTC. They currently have an outside exibition area, I assume because many of those displays are too high for Reliant Arena and of course the Dome would be very convieniant.

Who knows how many other, or future conventions will benefit from this feature of the Dome. Imagine the CSI convention? No not the TV show, but the Commercial Space Industry . Imagine 70, 80, 100 foot rockets being displayed upright, on the new Dome floor, maybe even space capsules being hung from the rafters of the Dome ceiling? It may sound like fantasy, but the new space very well could change the thinking of many a convention planning committee, and attract a market that a new bigger conventional convention space would not.

You really dream big! More than likely you will have a 270mil Dome convention center that collects dust.