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Our realtor says that if we buy a house with "poly pipes" we should replace them right away. And she was very excited every time we looked at a house that had already had the pipes replaced.
So, what's the story. She simply said "they break." And is it a costly thing to do (for example, in a 1600 sq ft, 2 story, 3 bed/2.5 ba house.)
We have a contract on a house with Poly pipes and have been researching the replacement. I think if you really love the house you may want to consider replacing the pipes or negotiating the sale based on a credit for replacement.
What I know from experience is that the re-sale of the house will be compromised by having these pipes. Everything I've read suggests it isn't the connectors only but the deterioration of the pipes themselves (eventually) that is or become the problem. You cannot see how the piping was installed (and that is only part of the problem). I personally cannot live with the roll of the dice. We really love this house so we are considering trying to work out the issue.
You have to also think about a claim with homeowners insurance. A claim for water damage could cause you real problems in non-renewal of your policy. Be aware that if you are canceled or even non-renewed your claims will follow you and all companies will know you were canceled. There is a database called "CLUE" that all insurance companies use to find your claims history. Once one company drops you it is very difficult to get another to cover you. If you do find a company it can double or more your insurance until you have at least 3-5 years clear of the claims. This is also true if you move and buy a new house - your claims history follows you.
We have done some research on price - and it looks like using a specialty company is the way to go - they have the experience and this is the only work they do. We are lucky to live in a major metropolitan area where there are many homes with this piping. The house we are looking at is 3 levels and (3.5 baths) and 3100 SF. The quote (generally) is around $6000. It's a tough problem to tackle and some home owners if they haven't had an issue aren't even up-to-date on the serious nature of the problem. In the home construction industry these pipes are completely outlawed.
The bottom line is if the house is a good fit for your family and this is the only issue - it can be fixed and you might want to negotiate that fix with the seller. I would not move into a house until the problem is repaired however. They stopped using these around 1995 I think. The house we are looking at was built in 89'.
Mike is completely right. It was a class action lawsuit. Poly pipes were very common in the 80s and early 90s. It was the plastic fittings that were the cause of the problem. If the house has poly pipes, I would check the fittings. If the fittings were copper/brass and installed properly like Mike stated in his house, then I feel comfortable with my clients purchasing the home but I still make them all aware since it is a material fact that must be disclosed.
Most homes that have poly pipes have not had the actual pipes replaced but just the fittings. I just sold a home to my clients that had poly pipes and the fittings were replaced. I also just showed another two that have the pipes. One home replaced the fittings as well but the other did not and still has the plastic ones.
The home inspector that I use says he has poly pipes with the original plastic fittings and has never replaced them. He says he has never had a problem. That makes me nervous since you never know what can happen. In the end, it is up to the buyer. I always make everyone aware when we see a home that is built within that time frame that it could have the pipes.
This is not the story we get from contractors and plumbers that we have surveyed. Our plumber (who we trust and know and who does not replace these) told us these pipes are bad news. There is no way to tell how the pipes were fitted - so much of it was used. You would have to look at the number of houses built by the builder and time frame to make an educated guess on whether or not there was proper installation even if that was the main factor - I do not believe based on my research that poor installation is the issue - that is the difference of whether the problem is bad or worse.
I would be very wary of any home inspector that didn't make a big deal out of poly pipes. They are a big issue and the material is no longer used - that should be a clue. They deteriorate over time (the pipe - not just the fittings). My guess would be that areas where the water is more chlorinated would have bigger / quicker deterioration issues - Many home owners insurance policies are now "asking" whether a house has these pipes and if so the insurance company will not either not cover the home or will exclude these pipes from claims.
I looked at PEX, PVC and CPVC. But in the end chose copper.
The way I look at it is I want to do it once and be done with it for a long time without any potential issues and copper is proven to work well.
Very easy for plastic to break and if it breaks that is way more flooding than what I would or could get with copper.
My situation is that the house I live in is over 30 years old and the original plumbing is cast iron pipe. Because it was run across the attic made most of it easily accessible. The drops are another story... but I've got close to 95% replaced and look to complete the rest in short order.
I decided against the PEX mostly due to potential of plastic chemical leach into the water and also the connections don't look that resilient to me. I don't know how true or untrue chemical leach is. I just decided for me that it's really not worth the risk even if untrue. How Safe is PEX tubing? | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com
PVC- most codes tell you to use it on out door connections only.
CPVC- a lot of grey areas in regards to temperatures it can withstand and it just felt too flimsy to me to have any serious reliability.
Copper is a long term solution and as long as you take care to install it right, keep it away from dissimilar metals as much as possible I have never known it to spring a leak except for a bad soldered joint I once in 20 years saw in the field.
Another thing to consider is copper is most likely going to be better in a situation like the MCHM water contamination problem that occurred in Charelston WV. That incident was kind of incredible, because you'd think that a water company would have its water intake UPSTREAM of a refinery and/or tank farm or bulk terminal. Or would have an ALTERNATE source of water, perhaps a sizable reservoir or other reserve. But that wasn't the case with West Virginia American Water Co. They sucked in MCHM and pumped it through miles of pipeline, then had customers flush it though their homes' water pipes so that the chemical would go through the waste treatment plant rather than just dump contaminated water into the storm sewers then directly into the river. There is a university someplace (Alabama, maybe?) that is studying the issue of permeation into plastic. An incident like this could happen in many cities due to terrorism if nothing else. If you have hard metal surfaces, you can clean them by a number of possible methods. But if a chemical permeates your plastic, then replace it entirely is what you have to do. I haven't trawled the Internet lately for updates, but some sections of the water pipelines and some homes were reporting lingering odor and aftertaste problems. Just another point to ponder. 2014 Elk River chemical spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yeah very true... but you'd have to do this with other methods too... Ice expands and there's no way to go but out.
With that said though, I live in a much warmer climate than you so my job with this is a tad bit easier. Most winters where I live extreme temps rarely dip much below 32 degrees and typically only a few hours during the night at best.
Usually hard freezes below 20 (what we call water bursting freezes) are a 1 in 30 year event on average where I live.
I'm in attics all the time where I see unprotected (non-insulated) copper water pipes and the homes are like 20-30 years old. I don't know maybe we're just lucky?
Copper is a great material, however, it is not a "its good forever" material. Copper pipes can develop pin hole leaks. When the anode rod in the water heater gives out, electrolysis can start, and pin hole leaks can develop.
They are also subject to freezing.
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