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We recently learned that our home may have been built using Chinese drywall. There is some evidence of black soot on electrical neutral wires, but not much else. We do smell an odor at times, but because this is a vacation home, we're not sure if the odor is from the house being unoccupied for weeks at a time. The copper plumbing seems fine. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to inspect the A/C coils.
I have gone up to the attic and was able to identify 4 - 5 labels on ceiling drywall. It is not Chinese; it is manufactured by National Gypsum out of N.C.
I'm puzzled . . . I do not understand why our bare copper wire is turning black (it comes off on your finger if you touch it), yet the drywall in the ceiling indicates the house does not have Chinese drywall.
I belive the house was built sometime between 2005 and 2007.
If anyone has any answers or suggestsions, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
What do you have for insulation? Do you have chipboard? Is there a lot of it?
There might be some type of problem, some materials may be the cause. I think the drywall thing is probably barking up the wrong tree. Drywall may be absorbing something. Lots of moisture problems in newer construction for various reasons. Also lots of mold appears to show up.
My better instincts are saying it is either extremely complicated or pretty simple, one of the two. Maybe there is a bacteria or mold that feeds on something and is the root cause in particular climates. Even USG's website has some discussions along these lines.
So far nobody has actually produced and posted even a pix of this famed Chinese drywall. Why is it so difficult to find????
I'm not even getting paid to solve this thing but I sure would not be looking at the drywall as the prime suspect if it is USG. I should be having the same problems. I got 40 sheets of it in my new / old shack.
In the discussions on USG's website they state a lot of this can not be prevented, various lil critters can grow on anything, including stainless steel. They are pointing to generally poor construction techniques, in particular anything that might trap mositure inside walls. The backs of drywall paper could be prime breeding grounds for something starting elsewhere. There is no possible solution to make any materials completely bug resistant over their working lives, including drywall. Good practices must be followed to prevent the conditions that cause, spread, or faciliate germ, bacteria, mold production.
Chipboard I already know will go wild if put in the wrong conditions. Can look like some culture dish. It might even produce H2S as part of a decay process. My focus would be more on it than drywall. Plus I know that modern lumber gives off tons of moisture. So bad, I have taken to buying some and storing in the garage in an air drying situation for possible use down the road. I am puzzled why the kiln dry is so poor. Maybe because the stuff under goes a huge curling / twisting process if you attempt to dry it down too much. Some of it particular wicked, to the point of being completely unusable.
Lots of things to focus on, instead of blaming them lil China guys.
When can I expect my first paycheck for all this good work.
Pics are all over the internet. Just google chinese drywall. Start here Home google chinese drywall on you-tube even for more. There are thousands of sites on it with pics. Google is your friend.
bgilligin, a different weight is used for the ceiling. The CDW is most often found in the walls of the home. The attic check is meaningless for that reason. Some homes only have it in a few walls of a home also.
The blackening and soot on your copper wires is very suspect. Was the home built in the last decade?
The AC coils are the next check for blackening. If the home is more then 2 years old, it also now may be showing blackening and pitting in bathroom chrome metals, and fogging or corrosion behind the bathroom mirrors.
Also know that 2 U.S. made brands have been found to show the same symptoms in the home. Investigations found that these companies ordered feed stock from a company that recyclyes drywall and it is believed, they may have purchased scrap for recycling from dumped chinese toxic stuff before it was known.
Who was the builder?
Have you asked neighbors if they are aware of the problem in your area?
I live in a recently developed subdivision and some home owners are complaining about corrosion and a foul smell. They seem to be blaming some drywall that was produced in China.
There are also some legal suites taking place on this matter. People are claiming they are getting sick and their home value is worthless. I know of at least one developer who are gutting the homes, taking the Chinese drywall out, and rebuilding from that point.
I googled "Chinese Drywall" and there were quite a few hits. Here is an excerpt from one:
Some home builders already struggling in Florida's dismal housing market are facing another headache: The Chinese-made drywall they used is causing unpleasant odors and possibly leading to electric problems in dozens of homes constructed during the housing boom. Homes under construction last year in Miami. In some developments in south Florida, odors from Chinese-made drywall are drawing complaints and health concerns from homeowners.
A handful of builders and environmental consultants are investigating whether the drywall, a wide flat board used to create interior walls, is emitting sulfur-based gases that may be corroding air-conditioner coils, computer wiring and metal picture frames.
Some homeowners are concerned about possible respiratory problems, but the Florida Department of Health says tests show that the levels of emissions from the drywall pose no "immediate health threat." The affected homeowners also worry that the drywall problems will reduce their already decimated property values and hamper their ability to resell, even when the market recovers.
A lawyer came to our house, checked a few receptacles, and showed me the black soot on some (not all) neutral wires. He asked if we wanted to get involved in a class action. As I mentioned, when I checked the back of the drywall in the attic, I saw it was not from China, but the wires were definately black or blackish. There was also no evidence of mold buildup on the exposed drywall that I saw, nor is there any evidence of mold buildup in the house that I can see.
I will look closer at some of the things you mentioned, but I would like to rule out the Chinese drywall thing as well.
I appreciate your detailed response on this.
Yes, glad to pay you if we can get to the bottom of this and my house is not worthless.
Probably ain't going to solve it tonight...............But we can try.
If this is such a wide spread problem and for real, seems to me basic problem / materials / mechanisms would be pretty well understood by now. Kind of like lab work 101. These things should not be that difficult to identify to name. What we normally get are unnamed sources referring to unnamed wild killer events in undisclosed locations with great impenting Earth moving actions to come from some lawyers. Problem is going on too long without a clear statement of fact.
What happens if you try to grow the black stuff in a culture type dish environment? Does it go wild and show a lot of growth? Moisture and heat with some culture medium.
We continue to get comments that make no real sense. Now they claim there is a recycle market for drywall. That does not jive with what USG sezs on their website. In fact if I understand it right, there is not even a "Broke Chest" type procedure similar to paper making where waste materials are recycled on the production line itself. Any waste drywall is considered contaminated and not worth attempting to put back into the process. Trying to get the paper out of it in mass volumes makes no economic sense. No USA drywall manufacturer claims to have been short raw product. It typically is a mine mouth type operation. Nobody claims to have been production limited from lack of raw materials in their own back yard, dynamite still works well in the quarries.
Worse yet they claim the recycling occured in China, the raw materials where shipped half way around the World, accepted with out any QC and reused. Nice tale but does not hang together. Where are the Chinese getting all this gypsum to recycle in the first place, do we send them stuff, like old demo'd houses??????????????
Then we get that stuff about mixed sources of materials. Different weight sheets on the truck from different manufacturers. Have any of these folks ever hung any drywall themselves? Have they actually ever ordered a full house load? Somehow they get a load out from some wholesaler who mixes in a few sheets of Chinese to flavor the load.
It is such a low value product, the difference between sheet thickness so low in price that most installers order only one thickness. Around my way there is no difference in price between 3/8 and 1/2 sheet, both cost the same. I've seen many installers throw half the truck load back out the window into the dumpster, they will not take time to piece out cut boards. The costs of the materials are not over riding considerations. Many of them might even try to fake the area where fire rated sheetrock is required. I've seen them do it. The incentive is to do it quick and fast, saving manhours. They sure do not want to be sorting various sheets on the job, just not how it works. Florida always is this weird place. Everything costs a fortune and done with such wierd methods / results. Is there something in the air or water????
I've also not come to any conclusions how they got any materials of any type from China. China was IMPORTING anything to do with building materials in those boom years not EXPORTING. You name it, rebar, cement, wood, glass, anything to do with construction was flowing toward China not out of it. Cement was on allocation all over the USA because they were sucking it up World wide from any source available, paying top dollar.
And we are told they turned around and exported whole boat load after boat load of drywall to the USA. Our fools being willing to pay a super premium over the premium being demanded in China for all construction materials plus pay the wee fees to move it half way around the World.
I still want to see a pix of drywall hung in some USA shack with Chinese markings on it. Poor bgilligan just checked and he ain't got none.
Just please post one. Make my day, we can go from there to find the for sure billions of other sheets. I'm going to go check my attic. I might have some of them up there.
One final chuckle, sort of the sanity check. If this stuff actually came from China, then what about the stuff made in China, used in China? Surely they were not crazy enough to import USA made drywall. I don't know if they use much drywall in China but they have adopted many Western building practices. If it is causing problems here, must be huge problems there. I've never been to Mainland China but spent a bunch of time in Hong Kong. Does get pretty humid and hot at times of the year. China got to be pretty much like that area in general. Bring your hankie.
Why is not the problem occuring in spades in the country of origin???? When in doubt always ask the wrong question. We are moving low value product all other the World in huge quantites in methods surely the CIA could not track. This is better than shipping coal to Newcastle or one of them such places.
Maybe with a lil work tonight we can have it fully cleared up by my night time beer break.
I didn't know that different drywall is used in the ceiling . . . thanks. I did check the A/C unit a few minutes ago and the coils are definately black. Not sure about the washroom mirrors - there may be something, but its quite minor if it's there at all.
Everything is pointing to Chinese drywall. The builder is WCI and there is an organized group trying to deal with this. I just wanted to make sure that we do have a problem before going down any rectification path (actually I was hoping we didn't have a problem).
Pics are all over the internet. Just google chinese drywall. Start here Home google chinese drywall on you-tube even for more. There are thousands of sites on it with pics. Google is your friend.
bgilligin, a different weight is used for the ceiling. The CDW is most often found in the walls of the home. The attic check is meaningless for that reason. Some homes only have it in a few walls of a home also.
The blackening and soot on your copper wires is very suspect. Was the home built in the last decade?
The AC coils are the next check for blackening. If the home is more then 2 years old, it also now may be showing blackening and pitting in bathroom chrome metals, and fogging or corrosion behind the bathroom mirrors.
Also know that 2 U.S. made brands have been found to show the same symptoms in the home. Investigations found that these companies ordered feed stock from a company that recyclyes drywall and it is believed, they may have purchased scrap for recycling from dumped chinese toxic stuff before it was known.
Who was the builder?
Have you asked neighbors if they are aware of the problem in your area?
Im trying to give up on this subject. I agree with much of what cosmic sad I just cant agree there is no Chinese drywall here. All kinds of Chinese toxic junk has invaded our lives.
The sulfur and sulfur alone causes the copper to turn black.
I will sit back and watch for awhile.
I do find it suspicious that all of a sudden several people come on here saying that American gypsum companies have this sulfur all have just one post. Maybe the mods can check IPs. I smell a fish there.
I didn't know that different drywall is used in the ceiling . . . thanks. I did check the A/C unit a few minutes ago and the coils are definately black. Not sure about the washroom mirrors - there may be something, but its quite minor if it's there at all.
Everything is pointing to Chinese drywall. The builder is WCI and there is an organized group trying to deal with this. I just wanted to make sure that we do have a problem before going down any rectification path (actually I was hoping we didn't have a problem).
Thanks for your help.
Brian
New development, neighbors with same complaints, black copper wires, black copper AC coils....you unfortunately have it somewhere in your walls. Luckily it is not your primary home. There is more discussion about it going on in the Florida SW forums where it is a big problem.
Cosmic, you truly do live under a rock. There are Senate hearings on this. It's real, China imported millions of tons during the last decade-mostly in 2005- 2006, the first Federal Agency tests already showwed high sulfur levels and other organic contminates not found in regular U.S. drywall. Google the CPSC site on this for Petes sake.
Some towns in Virgina have already put a ban on the material. A Supplier there had to dump over a million dollars worth of toxic stock into the land fill.
Desertsun, there are reports about some U.S. made causing the same problems. Here's one example
This is my only account. Considering at least 300,000 homes are effected, gee....do you think a few dozen at city data might have something to say about it? IP check away.
Your IP must be coming from a different planet. On earth, this is a small taste of what is happening-
The Saints Head Coach even has it in his house and he moved out already-
There are hundreds of more links I can post. How many more links do you want me to post to keep better informing other readers with?
Hundreds more.
bgilligan, there is plenty of info on the net for you to better research this with. Talk more with your neighbors, and don't be to quick to sign with an attorney until you learn more.
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