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I'm the owner/contractor for my attic finish project. I have pulled permits and have my licensed electrician, licensed HCVAC installer picked and estimates done. I have a framer/drywall duo that I have concerns with. They do not have general liability coverage on themselves but are willing to sign a wavier that if anything happens (i.e. injuries) that I will not be responsible. Does anyone have any experience in doing this with someone working on their home. How about if they bring someone with them do I need to have them sign something as well? I just want to protect myself and be prudent in taking on this subcontracting task.
Also, if the electrician gave me a quote after looking at the project and told me $40 per hour + materials and thought it would be around $1,200 but said if it was more he would increase his original estimate --- is this normal procedure? Is it unrealistic to expect him to give me a price and stick with it?
Last edited by kwalk65; 02-04-2009 at 01:35 PM..
Reason: Added another detail
I wouldn't hire anybody who cannot provide proof of general liability coverage and proof that their workmans comp insurance premiums are up to snuff. At least not in this state I won't.
Actually- you can't get a building permit pulled in my town w/out it, unless of course you are doing the work yourself, but I think law dictates if you hire someone, they must have those in place.
As far as the electrician, sounds as if he is billing time and materials. If so, then yes the price could vary. You can opt for a fixed cost estimate. If he doesn't do that, move on to another electrician.
They do not have general liability coverage on themselves but are willing to sign a wavier that if anything happens (i.e. injuries) that I will not be responsible.
Red flag to me. Why don't they have the coverage? Are they illegals?
Red flag to me. Why don't they have the coverage? Are they illegals?
No, they are not illegals. They said that they cannot afford Workman's Comp and General Liability. They have given me a bid to do the framing and drywall. Let me be dumb on this subject --- but is this not normal to not have coverage??? They work as a duo, 1 does the framing and the other does the drywall.
The only information needed for the permits were the name and license of the electrician and the name and license for the HVAC doing the work.
Last edited by kwalk65; 02-04-2009 at 02:16 PM..
Reason: clarification
No, it's not normal. They should know that informed customers are going to demand it, and some municipalities require it.
I recently hired a mason to rebuild a good portion of our chimney. The first thing he showed me was his in force contractors lisc and a copy of his liability insurance. He didn't require workmans comp because he was self-employed w/no workers. I didn't have to ask for this stuff, he had already prepared.
He said he used to have a larger company but the workmans comp premiums were just too high, so now he's solo.
His estimate was not time and materials, however he did discover one of the lower terra cota tile liners needed to be replaced during the tear down, so I authorized a change.
He was very professional, reasonable, and totally up to snuff. Only cost me $75 over his original estimate. He was a darned good mason and several people on my street hired him after my job.
Honestly, I don't care for time and material billing. Too many variables at stake. My old neighbor was a contractor, and he never did any time and material billing either.
No insurance? Walk... no run away from them. As for the Electrician, that is an estimate, not a quote. If he will not take a good look and provide an honest to God quote and you want one, then find another Electrician as well. I have been an Electrician for way too many years, and you CAN give a rock solid price on 99.99% of the jobs you take on. this doesn't sound like something that there is too much guess work involved when it comes to pricing personally.
Thank you all for your kind and well thought out responses --- I am grateful for each and every one of them!
I'm hoping that I can find an insured drywall and framer for my project but I won't go forward until I do. I am also checking with my county that issued the permits to understand what the building laws are for hiring sub-contractors. Maybe going with an insured and licensed company for these tasks is a better way to go. Yes?????
My .02cents- if you know the folks that are doing the work, and they're doing side work- then I'd say go for it. I have 2 friends that are electricians, one does HVAC, one is a general contractor.. Would I ask them for that stuff? No way. I know if something were to happen I would not be at fault, and conversely they know I wouldn't stick them if the job required more than what was anticipated. I absorb the cost of material and maybe an extra 12 pack for their time..
But if I were thumbing thru the Yellow Pages? Hell yeah- I want to know if the guy is on the up and up. I want to see insurance, lisc, referrals, the whole nine yards..
My .02cents- if you know the folks that are doing the work, and they're doing side work- then I'd say go for it. I have 2 friends that are electricians, one does HVAC, one is a general contractor.. Would I ask them for that stuff? No way. I know if something were to happen I would not be at fault, and conversely they know I wouldn't stick them if the job required more than what was anticipated. I absorb the cost of material and maybe an extra 12 pack for their time..
But if I were thumbing thru the Yellow Pages? Hell yeah- I want to know if the guy is on the up and up. I want to see insurance, lisc, referrals, the whole nine yards..
Okay, now I do feel dumb --- I don't know either of these guys and found them on craigslist!!!!!!
This is a 350 square foot attic finish. Nothing fancy except for a HVAC added --- just a bonus room with a closet.
My problem with hiring a GC to manage the project is that one bid came in for 25k and the other for 19k. If I manage the project and and act as the owner/contractor my total is 15k --- that is a considerable difference don't you think and worth hiring it out on my own??? I just need to find those that carry coverage so I don't stick my neck out on this project.
Okay, now I do feel dumb --- I don't know either of these guys and found them on craigslist!!!!!!
Don't do it. Get three estimates/quotes from local outfits who have all the required insurance.
Just curious - how much are they charging for the job?
Nothing wrong at all with you acting as the GC, just as long as the subs are legitimate.
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