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I used to have one. Switched to an indirect fired 30-gal storage tank because we were constantly running out of hot water with the tankless.
IMO the best method is a separate tank with its own burner which is what I have had for the past 5 years. Bock is supposed to be the best brand for tanks. Good burner brands are Riello and Beckett high-efficiency.
Two advantages to the separate hot water unit:
1. If something goes wrong with your heating system, you'll still have hot water. With a tankless or indirect-fired, when your heating system goes on the fritz you won't have hot water either. Cold showers in a cold house are no fun.
2. You can shut down the heating system (burner/boiler) completely during the summer and just run the hot water burner as needed.
I have thought long and hard about one for the bathroom. It's a good distance from the water heater. I feel that it would be worth while not to have to lose all that hot water left in the pipe after a shower. I think we would have room in a closet.
The old heater would be just for the washing machine, the power room and the kitchen, all of which are quite close to the heater.
I looked into the micro-wave ones some time ago. They sounded very good until I got to the part about if something went wrong, the entire unit had to be sent back to Germany (I think it was Germany) for repairs. Nope,, not for me.
I have thought long and hard about one for the bathroom. It's a good distance from the water heater. I feel that it would be worth while not to have to lose all that hot water left in the pipe after a shower.
I have a similar situation in my house. The master bath is on the 2nd floor and the diagonally opposite end from the garage-level water/heating equipment to boot. About 75 or 80 ft of actual pipe run altogether from water tank to showerhead. So it takes from 1 to 2 minutes of running just the hot water full-on to get it actually coming out of the shower hot. Worse in winter because the pipes, though insulated, run at least 2/3 of the distance through an unheated crawlspace.
My plumber suggested putting in a circulator instead. The circulator would keep hot water continuously running in a "loop" between the hot water tank and the shower supply line. If I were planning to stay permanently in this house I'd probably have him do it.
I live in an area where electricity is very expensive, so the tankless heaters that use electric coils would be a mistake for me. YMMV.
There's a good website here on tankless water heaters.
There are several types of tankless water heaters. I'm not familiar with the type mentioned by 4StanleyCups that use the heating system of the house to heat the water. While that may be tankless, it's not what I think of when I think of a tankless system.
The same is true for the type mentioned by Padgett2. That sounds more like a "hot spot" heater which is mounted locally near the hot water faucet rather than centrally. These are generally small, inexpensive heaters which are not very efficient. I've seen them used for outdoor kitchens where there is only cold water pipe, and the hot water is not needed often.
The tankless types with which I am familiar are centrally mounted and supply all the hot water for a house, just like a typical tank system. The difference is that they do not heat the water until hot water is needed, unlike a tank system which keeps the water hot all the time, whether it's needed or not.
These tankless systems can be gas or electric. If electric, they may need a very high amperage breaker -- 80a comes to mind -- and very heavy duty wiring. They are probably not a good idea for a retrofit. Gas heaters need to be vented, but a clever trick with a gas tankless heater is to mount it on an outside wall, where it is relatively unobtrusive and obviously doesn't need any additional venting. The same caveat applies when retrofitting; the plumbing and gas supply may be difficult to install.
The true efficiency of a tankless heater applies when there are few people in the house and hot water use is at a minimum. They are ideal for my wife and I, for example, because we wash our clothes in cold water, use our dishwasher no more than once a week (and often less), and use hot water only for showering and quick hand washing of dishes. It is not efficient to keep 40 gallons of water hot all the time for that use.
On the other hand, a large family washing clothes in hot water, using a dishwasher every day and taking several showers every day will probably be more efficient with a large tank system. The reason is that a tankless system uses a lot more energy when it's running; it gets it's efficiency when used less often as opposed to keeping water hot.
True tankless systems are also much more expensive to buy,although prices are coming down. If you do decide to get a tankless system, the key is to get one that is sized correctly. If your family often has two showers running at once, for example, you'll need a much larger tankless unit.
The water circulation system mentioned by 4StanleyCups is a great idea, but not for use with a tankless system, because it only works if it circulates constantly hot water. That requires a tank-type system. There are also timer-type systems which circulate cold water back through the cold water plumbing until a temperature sensor at the faucet detects hot water, then the bypass is shut off and the cold water works normally. You still have to wait for hot water, but you're not wasting water while you wait.
I dont have a tankless system yet because we don't have gas in our current house, and an electric was too expensive to install and operate. We are building a new house and will have a tankless unit mounted on an outside wall. It's going to have to have a fairly high capacity, however, because our new shower will have two wall-mounted shower heads and an overhead rain shower head -- just for fun.
We have a tankless for our master bathroom. It's still too early to tell whether they are a savings or not given our limited area and use. It is wonderful not to run out of hot water.
Also, if you plan on installing a tankless unit, you might have to think about two units for your home. It depends on size of home and level of use.
I have an American Heat Electric Tankless water heater. I use it in a vacation home in the mountains north of Los Angeles. A couple things:
1. I am not up there all the time, so I winterize the place in Winter when I'm gone, meaning I turn off the water at the main, so the pipes won't freeze. When you turn the water on, it often sputters for awhile, and the water pressure is not that high anyway. The plumbers who installed the water heater said that that sputtering is air pockets in the line, and when those hit the heating elements in the water heater, that would cause the elements to fry; they need to be always immersed in water when they are on.
I'm scared to death to use the tankless heater for this reason, particularly because I rent the place out, and knowing someone else is turning the water on scares me even more. Maybe I should put heat tape on all of the pipes under the house, insulate them all, and just leave the water on during the cold weather. I have an ancient gas water heater (tank) on line at present, but it's due to fail at any moment, which would be a disaster while renters are up there, so I need to do something soon. Any ideas on this?
2. The water is very hard up there, which shortens the life of a tankless water heater considerably. I'm thinking I should put a water softener online for the whole house, to protect the water heater. I have a filter on at present, but that's not the same. Any opinions on this?
3. I called the makers of my tankless water heater (they were called American Tankless Water Heater Corp. when I bought the unit, but it looks like they've changed their name to American Heat ), but none of the phone numbers lead anywhere; you just get recorded messages and when you try to leave a message, it says the mailbox is full. This does not sound good. Is this company out of business? Anybody have any info on this?
I have a similar situation in my house. The master bath is on the 2nd floor and the diagonally opposite end from the garage-level water/heating equipment to boot. About 75 or 80 ft of actual pipe run altogether from water tank to showerhead. So it takes from 1 to 2 minutes of running just the hot water full-on to get it actually coming out of the shower hot. Worse in winter because the pipes, though insulated, run at least 2/3 of the distance through an unheated crawlspace.
My plumber suggested putting in a circulator instead. The circulator would keep hot water continuously running in a "loop" between the hot water tank and the shower supply line. If I were planning to stay permanently in this house I'd probably have him do it.
I live in an area where electricity is very expensive, so the tankless heaters that use electric coils would be a mistake for me. YMMV.
There's a good website here on tankless water heaters.
If the tankless unit is gas it will work great and save you money over the course of time. If electric try to avoid them. Also, the manufacturers of the tankless do not recommend re-cir pumps on them(they will not work), so water will take just as long to get from point a to point b.
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Electric Tankless Water Heater Issues
