Do smaller kitchen/bath cabinet companies typically negotiate on price? (floor, Home Depot)
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I'm planning to remodel my kitchen: cabinets, counter, appliances, etc. I've received several quotes and have pretty much narrowed down to what company I'd like to work with. (No, I'm not going with Lowe's or Home Depot - yikes!)
The quote I have is ok (for cabinets + counters + installation + removal), but I'd like some $$ off. Is it normal to try to negotiate with kitchen cabinet & counter stores and receive a discount? Or are most places pretty firm on pricing? (I.E. - is it or isn't it like buying a car?)
I haven't tried negotiating yet - I'd just like to know what to expect beforehand. Although I haven't begun asking for money off, I've made it clear that the cost is a factor. The person that gave me the quote mentioned I could go to a lower cabinet line if I wanted to save money...
I should mention this store has a few locations - so I don't believe it's really a "Mom & Pop" store, but it isn't a "Cabinets-R-Us" type of store either.
I'm planning to remodel my kitchen: cabinets, counter, appliances, etc. I've received several quotes and have pretty much narrowed down to what company I'd like to work with. (No, I'm not going with Lowe's or Home Depot - yikes!)
The quote I have is ok (for cabinets + counters + installation + removal), but I'd like some $$ off. Is it normal to try to negotiate with kitchen cabinet & counter stores and receive a discount? Or are most places pretty firm on pricing? (I.E. - is it or isn't it like buying a car?)
I haven't tried negotiating yet - I'd just like to know what to expect beforehand. Although I haven't begun asking for money off, I've made it clear that the cost is a factor. The person that gave me the quote mentioned I could go to a lower cabinet line if I wanted to save money...
I should mention this store has a few locations - so I don't believe it's really a "Mom & Pop" store, but it isn't a "Cabinets-R-Us" type of store either.
Fair questions. You should look back at my old posts because I have gone into this quite deeply and hopefully helped many complete strangers save a whole lot of money.
Well it's not exactly like buying a car where negotiating is expected. It is the law that a vehicle must have a sticker on the window. It shows the list price of the vehicle and every option the vehicle has. No one actually pays that much money except really stupid people. Ever hear those car ads on the radio that say PAY ONE DOLLAR OVER STICKER PRICE? Well if you pay anything over sticker price then I have a nice bridge that crosses San Francisco Bay that I will sell a real cheap. The average vehicle should sell for about $2000 below sticker price and the dealer still does real well.
MSRP or sticker price or list price is what the manufacturer suggests to the retailer to sell that item at. Higher cost quality stores like Macys, Nordstrom and Dillards sell everything at list price. Discount chains like Target, Walmart discount from list.
I like the following example because it's the same as cabinets. Ever walk through a mall and all the jewelry stores have signs that say 50% off list, 60% off list and even 80% off list price? Yup all the time. How the hell do they do that? Because the store/dealer buys the product for 10 cents on a dollar so selling for 80% off list they are still making 10% of that high priced merchandise.
Cabinets also have a high wholesale to retail spread. Stores like the big orange who only wants your little green charge full list price for cabinets. The disaster you will get when you buy from them is a whole nother thread so we won't go there.
Almost all small and even chain cabinet stores discount from list. Most of those stores will advertise on their web page 50% off list which is quite a common discount. Personally I give a range, I say 40-50% off list price. Normally this discount is not negotiable though to make the deal we may knock off a couple hundred or maybe say hey. Buy this kitchen today and I will throw in free knobs and handles with the deal. I'm giving you $2.53 ea handles but they cost me 62 cents each. We all win don't we.
If you wish to get a particular design for less then you must consider backing off that nice cherry and looking at the maple or oak. Leave out some of those time saving ergonomic goodies we all love. Don't waste your money on plywood boxes but rather go with particle board which is very far superior to plywood and that alone saves you 15%. Skip the fancy glazing finishes. See where I'm going? Don't be greedy.
So many people come in and start playing with all the goodies and want want want but goodies cost. Stay with a basic kitchen with only the must have things and then those dollar signs will disappear from your eyes and I will be able to see your pupils again.
No book of mine is complete without mentioning that besides price, you need a good Certified Kitchen Designer CKD. The big box stores DO NOT have any. Getting to know your personal Kitchen Designer is just as important as the product you buy. People who sell cabinets are usually nice people but not all of them are Certified Kitchen Designers (CKD). They are salesmen who know some basics of the cabinets they sell but nothing at all about how to lay them out.
These big box stores give cashiers and other floor people a training class on how to use the design program for profit, not for maximum design functionality for the customers money. The customer sees their kitchen come alive on the screen but are really being short changed because they never know all the design possibilities because they are never told about them. Because those dummies don't know about them to tell you!!!
In closing, just remember this: Most designers are not contractors, but their job includes guiding you through the process right to the end – and holding your hand when you need it.
I've done it. Everything is negotiable. What you'll succeed in depends on several factors. I was honest and polite, saying I wanted to hire them but I needed a better price. To a degree it depends on the economy and their popularity. A company greatly in demand is less willing to deal, but these days many people who wouldn't previously deal are doing it. Do your research. But treat them with respect and don't act entitled. As I'm sure you know, they're not a charity.
Go through the budget line by line. I was always willing to make some concessions to get concessions. Quid pro quo. Among the things I've done to get money off the bottom line:
-Have the work done during their slow time of year (which for most is mid-winter, esp. around the holidays). But don't let them talk you into doing the job "in between" their other jobs, unless you really do enjoy chaos.
-Pay in cash. (Needless to say, don't pay upfront except for materials, get receipts and make sure every price and deadline is in writing.)
-Do some of the work yourself -- demo, assembling cabinets, painting, picking up items to save them trips, etc. (things that require little skill). But hold up your end of the bargain! That entitles you to demand that they do the same. If you say you'll do demo, make sure it's really finished when they arrive.
-Provide the big ticket items (like appliances). Anything a contractor buys FOR you will be marked up to cover their time and trouble. Do your own negotiating and have the items ready for the contractor. Sometimes if delivery fees were outrageous, I asked my contractor ahead of time if he would pick the items up on his way to the job site -- and, of course, I was willing to pay him. Say you'd rather give him the money than the store. But accept it if he declines.
Be prepared with a back-up company if your first choice won't play ball. When companies set up estimates, they account for every contingency -- they almost always will do the job for less, especially if you act like a reasonable person. But understand they they are less willing to take money off their price when you are denying them the opportunity to mark up big items. They make a lot of their money that way.
BTW, I never bought an appliance or other big ticket item (even sale ones) without saying, "I'd be willing to pay cash for a 10% discount." I've gotten it every time that I wasn't buying a floor model or from deeply discounted sale where I knew their cost. Walk away if they won't give you a discount for cash -- you'll find it somewhere else. And, of course, you'll get better prices by buying multiple items from a single seller. But always remember to be respectful to your sales person. I've been one and I know I'm willing to go to bat with management for a customer I like.
I'm planning to remodel my kitchen: cabinets, counter, appliances, etc. I've received several quotes and have pretty much narrowed down to what company I'd like to work with. (No, I'm not going with Lowe's or Home Depot - yikes!)
The quote I have is ok (for cabinets + counters + installation + removal), but I'd like some $$ off. Is it normal to try to negotiate with kitchen cabinet & counter stores and receive a discount? Or are most places pretty firm on pricing? (I.E. - is it or isn't it like buying a car?)
I haven't tried negotiating yet - I'd just like to know what to expect beforehand. Although I haven't begun asking for money off, I've made it clear that the cost is a factor. The person that gave me the quote mentioned I could go to a lower cabinet line if I wanted to save money...
I should mention this store has a few locations - so I don't believe it's really a "Mom & Pop" store, but it isn't a "Cabinets-R-Us" type of store either.
It is very understandable that people want the most for their money. It is also understandable that people shop around and they should to make sure they are not getting ripped off. What is not understandable is once they are given a price, and it is in line with many other estimates received, that they want to try and dicker it down even more? What is not understandable also is why consumers look first at price instead of the many other factors they should be using first to select their products and services? It is understandable that most consumers do not have a concept of a contractors costs for providing that product and/or service.
If you were to ask me to reduce my prices, which in these times are already as low as possible, I would have to respond with "So what would you like me to reduce to give you that lower price? Would you like less service, or less quality of the materials used, or would like both? Oh and by the way, would you like fries with that order?".
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BTW, I never bought an appliance or other big ticket item (even sale ones) without saying, "I'd be willing to pay cash for a 10% discount." I've gotten it every time that I wasn't buying a floor model or from deeply discounted sale where I knew their cost. Walk away if they won't give you a discount for cash -- you'll find it somewhere else. And, of course, you'll get better prices by buying multiple items from a single seller. But always remember to be respectful to your sales person. I've been one and I know I'm willing to go to bat with management for a customer I like.
Good luck.
Do you realize that you are telling people to break a federal law as well as telling us those stores you bought from broke a federal law? Do you know why I don't believe you? Because legit stores keep a record of each and every sale/transaction. There is a paper trail of each sale, stores get audited by their own Accountants as well as the IRS. There is no way a big store can give you a discount for cash which I assume is being done so the store don't have to pay sales tax. When inventory and sales don't jive then big red flags start flying. Watch what you're saying.
It is very understandable that people want the most for their money. It is also understandable that people shop around and they should to make sure they are not getting ripped off. What is not understandable is once they are given a price, and it is in line with many other estimates received, that they want to try and dicker it down even more? What is not understandable also is why consumers look first at price instead of the many other factors they should be using first to select their products and services? It is understandable that most consumers do not have a concept of a contractors costs for providing that product and/or service.
If you were to ask me to reduce my prices, which in these times are already as low as possible, I would have to respond with "So what would you like me to reduce to give you that lower price? Would you like less service, or less quality of the materials used, or would like both? Oh and by the way, would you like fries with that order?".
You are right on. We are now living in a Walmart culture. We (count me out) want cheap cheap cheap. Today's consumer don't care about quality, warranty, who the manufacturer is, where the product is manufactured, who the installers are.........all they care about is how cheap they can buy it. Proof of this is the completely full parking lots of Walmart. Home of cheap Chinese made junk with no warranty and no guarantee your health will withstand the poisons used to make that product. But it's cheap.
The consumer is also taking advantage of service businesses too. Figuring hey, they are starving to death anyway, lets see if we can get the work for free. The professionals who have bills just say no and eventually lose their business and fade into the ever growing masses of the unemployed. Or, they just change professions. The opposite is the cheap labor without immigration papers can work for peanuts, box tops and postage stamps because they have no overhead because they share 15 adults to one room.
America and it's economy and culture has changed for the worse. But one thing will never ever ever change. You get what you pay for. Buy cheap and may the quality be damned.
Not many years ago the American consumer would buy an American made product from a company who has a reputation for quality. If that item went bad, the consumer would raise hell. Today when a consumer buys a cheap Chinese piece of junk and it breaks in one week. Nothing is said, no complaining. Just toss it and buy another of the same.
Do you realize that you are telling people to break a federal law as well as telling us those stores you bought from broke a federal law? Do you know why I don't believe you? Because legit stores keep a record of each and every sale/transaction. There is a paper trail of each sale, stores get audited by their own Accountants as well as the IRS. There is no way a big store can give you a discount for cash which I assume is being done so the store don't have to pay sales tax. When inventory and sales don't jive then big red flags start flying. Watch what you're saying.
There's always ways to mark items down on the spot. Retailers do it all the time. It doesn't mean the retailer isn't paying the sales tax. The requirement is that the store pay the sales tax due on items sold, not that they collect it.
We have a hardware store chain that runs no sales tax days all the time. They are running a 10% sale. Trust me -- they are paying the state sales tax....
By the way, I used to work in furniture retail, so our delivery guys would on occasion get a little knife happy cutting the wrappings off things and I had give 15%-25% off the damaged goods to get the person to keep it. On the spot adjustment. So I do know what I'm talking about.
There's always ways to mark items down on the spot. Retailers do it all the time. It doesn't mean the retailer isn't paying the sales tax. The requirement is that the store pay the sales tax due on items sold, not that they collect it.
We have a hardware store chain that runs no sales tax days all the time. They are running a 10% sale. Trust me -- they are paying the state sales tax....
By the way, I used to work in furniture retail, so our delivery guys would on occasion get a little knife happy cutting the wrappings off things and I had give 15%-25% off the damaged goods to get the person to keep it. On the spot adjustment. So I do know what I'm talking about.
No disrespect but I don't trust you. Those no sales tax days are done by depressed blighted neighborhoods with the approval of the local governments to entice shoppers to shop in town. The retailers do not collect sales tax and don't pay it to the govt. There are no sales tax days all over the country.
Ok forget about taxes for a moment. Did you know it's it's federal law saying a retailer can not charge you more for a credit card? Sureeeee, that's discriminating against those using credit. So the perfect loop hole is for the retailer to simply discount for cash. Hmmm same thing but legal this way. What the retailer really gains is not having to pay the extortion fees....oops sorry I mean rape fees.......oops sorry again.........ok merchant fees to Visa which can run from 3 to 5% of the sale.
Good for you if you can get people to chop their price. In many cases you are insulting them but they believe in the same theory as I. Taking a little bit of something is better then taking everything of nothing!!!!!!!!
No disrespect but I don't trust you. Those no sales tax days are done by depressed blighted neighborhoods with the approval of the local governments to entice shoppers to shop in town. The retailers do not collect sales tax and don't pay it to the govt. There are no sales tax days all over the country.
Ok forget about taxes for a moment. Did you know it's it's federal law saying a retailer can not charge you more for a credit card? Sureeeee, that's discriminating against those using credit. So the perfect loop hole is for the retailer to simply discount for cash. Hmmm same thing but legal this way. What the retailer really gains is not having to pay the extortion fees....oops sorry I mean rape fees.......oops sorry again.........ok merchant fees to Visa which can run from 3 to 5% of the sale.
Good for you if you can get people to chop their price. In many cases you are insulting them but they believe in the same theory as I. Taking a little bit of something is better then taking everything of nothing!!!!!!!!
Good luck to ya............................
Orchard Supply Hardware does no sales tax sales at all their locations all the time. At least once a month I hear an ad for this.
They don't charge the 9.5% tax to the customer, so it's a 9.5% sale. They still pay the sales taxes to the state. They even state it by saying "We'll take care of the taxes for you".
There is no difference to them doing this than running a sale. It's a cute little gimmick. That's it.
And when I reduced a sofa that got a small fixable tear in a spot that no one would notice, we would mark it down. No different than saying this weekend our stock was on sale 15% off.
SO if someone came in and said I'll buy that sofa with cash for 10% less, I have the option of saying NO. But if I want to move product, and a sale is a sale.... I will find a reason to mark that specific one down. Oh, there's a tear, the box got bashed.... something.
And yes -- you are absolutely correct in saying that retailers aren't allowed to charge less for cash customers.... but hardly anyone ASKS, and you aren't allowed to state it.
I've been on both ends -- I've purchased clothing that I've noticed has an issue that I can fix -- missed buttons, small tear on the seam, and I've asked for and been given discounts on them.
And I've not given discounts on stuff that I believe that the person damaged in order to get a discount...
Orchard Supply Hardware does no sales tax sales at all their locations all the time. At least once a month I hear an ad for this.
They don't charge the 9.5% tax to the customer, so it's a 9.5% sale. They still pay the sales taxes to the state. They even state it by saying "We'll take care of the taxes for you".
There is no difference to them doing this than running a sale. It's a cute little gimmick. That's it.
And when I reduced a sofa that got a small fixable tear in a spot that no one would notice, we would mark it down. No different than saying this weekend our stock was on sale 15% off.
SO if someone came in and said I'll buy that sofa with cash for 10% less, I have the option of saying NO. But if I want to move product, and a sale is a sale.... I will find a reason to mark that specific one down. Oh, there's a tear, the box got bashed.... something.
And yes -- you are absolutely correct in saying that retailers aren't allowed to charge less for cash customers.... but hardly anyone ASKS, and you aren't allowed to state it.
I've been on both ends -- I've purchased clothing that I've noticed has an issue that I can fix -- missed buttons, small tear on the seam, and I've asked for and been given discounts on them.
And I've not given discounts on stuff that I believe that the person damaged in order to get a discount...
I don't like your ways but I would like to be your best friend when attending a garage sale together.......
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