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I'm looking to lay some new ceramic tile in my basement. The subfloor is cement and it has 2 layers of vinyl tile on top. One layer is 9x9s, which I'm told are likely asbestos. The second, newer layer is 12x12s. From what I've learned, my options are as follows:
1. Lay the new ceramic directly on top of the vinyl using "one-step" or latex-modified thinset. I've read many things that do not recommend this, but it was recommended to me by someone on allexperts.com
2. Lay 1/4" backerboard on top of the vinyl using thinset and tapcons (or similar), then lay the ceramic on top of the tiles.
3. I'd really prefer not to remove the vinyl tiles b/c of the potential health hazards and time involved. Also, the cement below likely has small cracks and imperfections which I would then have to remedy.
I'm interested in a solid, durable installation. I don't mind spending a little more on thinset and backerboard if need be, but I just want to be sure I'm doing this the right way.
It "can" be done, but I wouldn't. At some point the tile will come up.
Your best option is #2 - the backer board will give your tiles something to stick to. BTY - you might try Hardi Backer Board rather than the more common cement backer board. The Hardi product is more epensive but it's thiner and easier to lay tile on IMO.
Best wishes.
The Tile Council of America or,
The Ceramic Tile Education Foundation both do not recommend doing what your planning to do.
I would not use a CBU panel tapconed to the concrete!!! No CBU panel manufacturer will warranty that idea.
If it were my house, I would remove the resilient flooring, and the 9x9 VAT. Your going to be left with black cutback adhesive residue on the concrete. This must be removed to a stain on the concrete.
Then encapsulate the cutback adhesive with a product like ARDEX Feather finish.
Then I would use an anti-fracture membrane, like Schluter Ditra.
Your tile installation is only as good as the substrate your going over. Going over two layers of resilient, is a failure waiting to happen. Even one layer is a failure waiting to happen. May not be tomorrow, or next week or month, but it will eventually "pop"
I'm looking to lay some new ceramic tile in my basement. The subfloor is cement and it has 2 layers of vinyl tile on top. One layer is 9x9s, which I'm told are likely asbestos. The second, newer layer is 12x12s. From what I've learned, my options are as follows:
1. Lay the new ceramic directly on top of the vinyl using "one-step" or latex-modified thinset. I've read many things that do not recommend this, but it was recommended to me by someone on allexperts.com
2. Lay 1/4" backerboard on top of the vinyl using thinset and tapcons (or similar), then lay the ceramic on top of the tiles.
3. I'd really prefer not to remove the vinyl tiles b/c of the potential health hazards and time involved. Also, the cement below likely has small cracks and imperfections which I would then have to remedy.
I'm interested in a solid, durable installation. I don't mind spending a little more on thinset and backerboard if need be, but I just want to be sure I'm doing this the right way.
Any help is much appreciated.
I too am a qualified member in good standing of allexperts and if I find out the clown who told you to put ceramic tile over any layers of vinyl tile I will report that useless idiot. How did he sneak into allexperts.com? I hope you rated him poorly.
All the advice given thus far is accurate. Especially going by what the Tile Council recommends.
As far as the asbestos. Hmmmmm I just recommended how to do it yourself but it probabaly would not pass the censors so I erased it. There are ways to do it yourself or you can hire those clowns who will charge more then the house is worth to do it. Go research how to take those tiles up safely your self.
Believe it or not, he's not the only one who recommended it.
I know the ideal thing would be demoing the old floor, but I know its gonna be a HUGE pain. I'm sure there will be cracks, holes, etc. How much do my chances of a successful install suffer if I opt for laying it directly over the vinyl? Let's assume the existing vinyl is securely bonded and has been for 20+ years.
Has anyone heard of Super-Lastic thinset? This is what is being recommended to me for ceramic over vinyl install.
VAT tiles really are not that fiable. As long as you don't sand or grind it, the Asbestos doesn't get airborne. Lay a wet tile over the tiles your removing and a wet sanding of the cutback. Keep it wet and there will be no dust to get airborne.
Your going to want to know if there are cracks and just what size and what they are doing.
Chances of it popping? Well I'll put it like this.
Let me punch you in the nose, as hard as I can hit(which is pretty darn hard) Your nose may, or may not hurt, or bleed. Right now at this point we don't know the answer, but we both have a very good idea of the outcome.
Cordon off the basement from the rest of the home with clear plastic and get a respirator. You need to completely remove all layers of tile. It is the best way and do not lay backer board over vinyl. I am getting angry just thinking about someone mentioning this to you...It is silly...
Wet the tile first and use a long handled ice scraper to scrape off the tiles. My father in law recommends this method as he was in the business for 40 so years and his workers still remove tiles using this method now. Keeping the tiles wet will prevent asbestoes from becomming airborne...
I personaly removed the tiles in my garage the same way and installed a ceramic tile using a wet base. Keep in mind if the older tar on the first on the ground tile is present you will need to remove all of it so what ever thinset you use will work to its fullest.
If you do not mind a hollow sound then you can go for the layer of wood then ceramic tile but I can guarantee you it will crack at the seems and joints and sound horrible when you walk on it plus it will not be the right way to do the job.
Good luck..
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