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I doubt you know much about Greenville and Upstate history to do a comparison. To say one city's history is more interesting than another city's is more of a marketing assertion. Slavery was commonplace back in the day and truly no more historic than theft and other bad things. The slaves lived mundane lives working in the fields and the plantation owners lives were not generally interesting. For starters, it is easier for us to travel.
There's also more to SC history than slavery, civil war, and segregation.
The Civil war and slavery ended in 1865. The Upstate industrialized before Charleston did.
And? The institution itself is a lot more notable and significant. I don't know how you could say it was no more notable than theft...it was an institution that introduced an entire subculture to the US, that made up more than 1/2 its population, that built its infrastructure and tended its fields.
Are you talking about tourism or history or are you talking about a place to live? Look, 100% I'd probably say that the upstate would be a more enjoyable place to live (at least in my mind.) I like the hills, I don't like the swamp, the beach I could take or leave, I really like Greenville and I've enjoyed the time I spend in the Greenville/Spartanburg MSA. But I'm not visiting there over Charleston for a lot of reasons.
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Originally Posted by Vaccinated Masker
Greenville's first white settler Richard Pearis has a more interesting story than the average Charleston resident back then
Have you done any of the Blue Ridge tourist stuff in SC. I can promise you most women like Greenville and spots like Pretty Place and Lake Jocassee.
"Interesting" is subjective. "Significant" is not. Charleston is both, objectively.
In South Carolina? No, I haven't spent much time in the mountains. Is it notably different than the Blue Ridge tourist stuff in NC or TN? I tend to doubt it. I know my wife would like Greenville. It isn't a question of "liking it." It's a question of being worth the drive specifically for the city's own sake. I'd say it isn't. It's something we would enjoy on a work trip, or visiting for a wedding, or taking
For me, part of the fun of traveling is going to different places. My Upstate pitch is more for outdoors people, not people who prefer to be in a city and doing things like shopping.
A true history fan wants to learn about something different rather than visit the same place again. Most people aren't going to do the history stuff in Charleston more than once. For example, Fort Sumter is not an impressive structure and probably disappoints a good number of people, especially with the 32 dollar cost.
My comments are not suggesting people don't visit Charleston. Most people in the south are probably going visit Charleston at some point.
I suspect you didn't know "there were more battles and skirmishes fought right here in South Carolina (the Upstate) than in any other colony during the Revolutionary War?"
You drive by Kings Mountain and Cowpens on the way to Greenville from Raleigh. They are both national historic sites indicating they are historically significant.
The Upstate is also the only place in SC with car accessible petrogylphs, at the Hagood Mill historic site.
North Carolina doesn't have any state parks with cabins in the Blue Ridge area. South Carolina has Oconee State Park and Table Rock State park. These state parks were built during the Great Depression.
Outside of the small Lake Lure near Chimney Rock, and some other similar small lakes, I don't think NC has any clear water lakes like Keowee and Jocassee at the base of the Blue Ridge. Jocasee has Devil's Fork State park which has nice villas. I prefer going to lakes more than the beach. The upstate has one of the highest density of waterfalls in the country.
John C Calhoun is considered the most prominent southerner in the generation after Thomas Jefferson. Clemson University is on his former plantation and the mansion called Fort Hill still exists on campus.
Calhoun lived at Fort Hill at least part time when he was vice president. https://archive.independentmail.com/...45851362.html/ The entire town of Pendleton nearby is on the national register of historic places.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 08-19-2022 at 03:52 PM..
There was a guy in Ohio who kidnapped several women and had them tied up in his basement for 10 years until one of them escaped. They were his slaves. No normal person would want to drive hours to visit his house , and pay money to learn about the details or visit gardens around his house. Nobody says it is historic but what happened to these women was as bad as what happened to the slaves. Bad stuff happens to people everyday but it doesn't become a tourist attraction. As far as I know, Charleston hasn't created any big memorial for the black church members who were murdered a few years ago in downtown. That is definitely one of the biggest news stories of the last 50 years but the church is not a tourist attraction as far as I know.
The only thing really historic about slavery is when it ended. I get visiting Fort Sumter because it was the beginning of the end of slavery. Plus being on a boat in the harbor is fun.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 08-19-2022 at 04:46 PM..
And? The institution itself is a lot more notable and significant. I don't know how you could say it was no more notable than theft...it was an institution that introduced an entire subculture to the US, that made up more than 1/2 its population, that built its infrastructure and tended its fields.
Are you talking about tourism or history or are you talking about a place to live? Look, 100% I'd probably say that the upstate would be a more enjoyable place to live (at least in my mind.) I like the hills, I don't like the swamp, the beach I could take or leave, I really like Greenville and I've enjoyed the time I spend in the Greenville/Spartanburg MSA. But I'm not visiting there over Charleston for a lot of reasons.
"Interesting" is subjective. "Significant" is not. Charleston is both, objectively.
In South Carolina? No, I haven't spent much time in the mountains. Is it notably different than the Blue Ridge tourist stuff in NC or TN? I tend to doubt it. I know my wife would like Greenville. It isn't a question of "liking it." It's a question of being worth the drive specifically for the city's own sake. I'd say it isn't. It's something we would enjoy on a work trip, or visiting for a wedding, or taking
Just for clarification. Spartanburg is currently a separate metro from Greenville despite Greenville's growth over the county line.
Don't follow why Charleston would have canals in downtown or where they would be.
It is interesting there have been two persons from Orangeburg to post on this topic with the same general views and profile.
It's no big deal either way but have you been to Greenville in the last 30 years or the SC Blue ridge tourist stuff like Caesars Head, Pretty Place, Lake Jocassee, Table Rock, Issaqueena Falls, Chattooga River, etc
The reason I ask is you don't seem like a big mountains guy and it seems like you would go to Asheville if you did a mountain vacation given your profile You said you left Clemson because it wasn't your cup of tea so it is hard to imagine you driving hours to visit Greenville and the blue ridge area
Market Street itself is a filled-in creek. There’s already talk of assessing points along the peninsula’s perimeter where it would be wiser to eventually accommodate the water than to block it.
Tens of millions of dollars in state and local funds are being poured into building tunnels and installing pumps to drain and pump water back into the Ashley River from the medical district. Other areas may be better off with tidal inlets to take care of ebb and flow. Pedestrian and vehicular traffic bridges could someday be constructed to cross those ravines. I have even imagined Market Street having that type of set-up next century, after millions of dollars in drainage and pumps that are planned for that district have played out after a hundred or so years. Whether or not there will ever be canals on the peninsula, they would make sense.
I will say that after a weekend in Asheville years ago, I was ready not to have a mountain blocking my view every which way I turned. Other than that, I have nothing against terrain I’m not used to.
Are you insinuating I’m posting under two profiles? Get that out of your head. I never have and never will.
I grew up going to the mountains for a weekend every year. I’ve been to many landmarks in the NC and TN parts of the BRM’s. But we had a beach house at Edisto, and there has just always been something about the coast and proximity to it for me. Strokes/folks.
Apparently there was a canal of some sort in downtown Charleston at one point. It was filled in to create Water Street.
You would not have mountains blocking your view in SC at Caesar's Head, Pretty Place, Tamassee Knob in Oconee State Park, Table Rock, Bald Rock on Pinnacle Mountain, Jumping Off Rock overlook on Jocassee, Glassy Mountain, Big Rock, Sassafras Mountain (state high point), Drawbar Cliffs, etc. These overlooks are as good as any in TN and NC.
I don't think you are the other person. You have very different personalities despite the same hometown, general views and "identity". Orangeburg is a small town on the other side of the state so it is an interesting coincidence.
It always surprises me when SC natives haven't visited much or any of the SC Blue Ridge attractions. I meet people in Greenville all the time who have not. There was a Greenville resident on this topic who tried to present the Upstate as not having much to do in relation to Columbia and the midlands. He even mentioned the small town of Edgefield which I have never heard of people visiting for tourist reasons. Perhaps he confused it with Aiken which gets a little golf and horse related tourism.
It breaks my heart there are SC natives who might not know what I'm talking about if I mentioned Devils Kitchen, Bulls Sluice or Jumping Off Rock.
https://discoversouthcarolina.com/ar...in-the-upstate Here's an idea for a trip with your significant other. Horseback riding around waterfalls or Lake Jocassee and Jumping Off Rock, especially in the fall. Coming from the land of pine trees in northeast SC, one of the things I really appreciate about the Upstate is the fall color.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 08-20-2022 at 11:49 AM..
I’m not sure the Emanuel Nine Memorial has been built yet as the attached implies, but if not, it’s coming. To some degree the church has been a solemnly visited landmark in light of what happened there.
Antebellum times still intrigue lots of people, but, as I have said already, the intrigue is no longer focused almost exclusively on aristocrats sipping mint juleps on the piazzas of their peninsula and plantation mansions, but on the daily lives and on the bravery of the enslaved and of the free people of color who organized and led uprisings.
We’re talking about nearly 200 years of antebellum history in Charleston, plus Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement. There’s a lot of material to cover. But besides all that, there’s the beauty of the architecture and vegetation that create an ambiance that in so many people’s opinion is what Charleston is about in today’s world.
My niece is in education with a PhD in rural Spartanburg County, and she said it’s unbelievable how insular so much of the population is. There are children who have scarcely ever seen another town, let alone been to downtown Spartanburg or Greenville or the mountains.
I’m reading as many articles about people falling off cliffs in the mountains as I am about them being attacked by sharks in the ocean. I just read one moments ago. I don’t go into the ocean or into local rivers where I could be killed by a gator. Horseback riding around waterfalls doesn’t sound any safer.
That's interesting. It seems like a rural area is the last place the typical person with a PhD wants to live.
Sounds like you are describing poor people who don't have cars. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a large number of people in Charleston and N. Charleston who have never been to King Street.
It would be hard to fall off these SC overlooks without it being your goal.
I’m not sure the Emanuel Nine Memorial has been built yet as the attached implies, but if not, it’s coming. To some degree the church has been a solemnly visited landmark in light of what happened there.
Antebellum times still intrigue lots of people, but, as I have said already, the intrigue is no longer focused almost exclusively on aristocrats sipping mint juleps on the piazzas of their peninsula and plantation mansions, but on the daily lives and on the bravery of the enslaved and of the free people of color who organized and led uprisings.
We’re talking about nearly 200 years of antebellum history in Charleston, plus Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement. There’s a lot of material to cover. But besides all that, there’s the beauty of the architecture and vegetation that create an ambiance that in so many people’s opinion is what Charleston is about in today’s world.
Understood but many people pitch Charleston's history as "more interesting" and "better" than Greenville and other places despite its history being among the worst in this country. There is a macabre element to Charleston's history tourism that exists regardless of how the history is presented. The city is still presented in romantic terms by people who specifically mention the slavery and Civil War history. This includes some people who could be described as woke or woke adjacent. They aren't downplaying or ignoring the slavery.
That looks like a nice memorial. It doesn't look it will be a tourist attraction in the sense you have to pay to access it.
Last edited by Vaccinated Masker; 08-20-2022 at 03:24 PM..
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