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See, this is where you are wrong. Walmart specifically states that they do not charge their customers for plastic bags. I find it hard to go off of your hearsay. Do you have any evidence they do charge?
So you believe that Walmart absorbs the cost of bags? Really? You don't think that in their accounting they factor the overhead of doing business and insure those costs are included in the price of good sold?
Just how do you think Walmart got so big? Simply buy charging less for more? That doesn't work and never has. Every business considers the cost of doing business and passes that onto customers, either directly or indirectly.
The evidence is right out in the open. You are talking about one store, Walmart. Walmart may have chosen to tell you that they aren't charging you for bags. That could be absolutely true. Do you think they don't build that cost in somewhere else?
You want more? Take the large grocery stores. Not everyone shops at Walmart.
They did not charge for bags before the ban.
They charge for bags after the ban.
The prices did not go down.
What happened to the money you still pay?
If you follow the argument step by step it is easy to see,
If you looked at your credit card statement and saw a charge for 10 cents on it you did not recognize would you say something or blow it off and pay no attention? What if it happened every week? At what point would you say something was wrong and you were getting ripped off?
If someone stole a dime from your child every week at what point would you become concerned, before or after they realized you could care less?
Nope. My grocery simply got rid of the plastic bags at checkout. Those who bring their own bags get a ten-cent discount for each. There is no charge for paper bags.
Whole Food and Trader Joe's both only give recycled paper bags. Bags that say to reuse. Nice bags and I usually save them for when I take trips. Does not solve the scooping cat litter problem. COSTCO doesn't have anything but boxes or nothing. However, COSTCO also has a person at the door checking your cart against your receipt. Easy to shoplift without checking everyone's cart.
That brings up another problem with bring your own bags. Stealing. Personal bags going in and out. Will supermarkets have to do the same as COSTCO? My daughter works as an undercover LP (Loss Prevention). She has in supermarkets besides retail. Check people and their reusable bags at the door against their receipts? They would have to hire somebody to just stand there at the doors. The undercover security cannot be in two places at the same time. It would certainly make LP's job far more difficult. Think supermarkets will hire more people? Doubtful.
Whole Food and Trader Joe's both only give recycled paper bags. Bags that say to reuse. Nice bags and I usually save them for when I take trips. Does not solve the scooping cat litter problem. COSTCO doesn't have anything but boxes or nothing. However, COSTCO also has a person at the door checking your cart against your receipt. Easy to shoplift without checking everyone's cart.
That brings up another problem with bring your own bags. Stealing. Personal bags going in and out. Will supermarkets have to do the same as COSTCO? My daughter works as an undercover LP (Loss Prevention). She has in supermarkets besides retail. Check people and their reusable bags at the door against their receipts? They would have to hire somebody to just stand there at the doors. The undercover security cannot be in two places at the same time. It would certainly make LP's job far more difficult. Think supermarkets will hire more people? Doubtful.
Even stores that have banned plastic bags at checkout usually have plastic produce or bulk bags. Use those. Or buy your own. There are pet waste bag dispensers all over my neighborhood, so I'm certain the bags are available from retailers.
As for your second point, everything is perfectly visible inside the cart when one is standing at the checkout before the items are placed in reusable bags. How is that any different than putting items in paper bags or the previously provided plastic ones from the perspective of loss prevention? The answer is: It's not.
Last edited by randomparent; 10-05-2014 at 08:22 AM..
You're dodging the question at hand. What stores charge for plastic bags?
Every store charges for plastic bags or any bag. You're dodging what everyone should know, that anything you get from a store costs you money, it is built-into the price of good sold.
In California, they are now all charging for bags, soon to come to a store near you because this scam is going to propagate throughout the county.
The questions to you are simple:
Do you believe the stores weren't somehow factoring the cost of bags into the prices they charge you?
Then one more question:
Do you believe that after the ban, they eliminated including the cost of bags in the prices you pay for goods simple because they no longer have to give you one as they did before?
If your answer is yes, then really it becomes one of those its just a little thing. Well, isn't that was the idea of being "green" is? Little things that collectively add up to something better? Instead, a little bit of money sucked from you every time you care less means a lot to the people who crafted the ban.
They counted on those who don't think through ideas, want quick feel good results that in the end just cost people money and provide no substantial benefit. They learn well and they will come calling again and those who believe will cough up more money, not to accomplish anything real, but just to feel good.
Last edited by Mack Knife; 10-05-2014 at 11:04 AM..
That brings up another problem with bring your own bags. Stealing.
This reminded me of an incident I witnessed last winter at my local grocery store. Being winter, people were wearing jackets and coats. Two people shopping together had removed their bulky coats and placed them in the cart while they loaded up their groceries. I was checking out in an adjacent lane to these people also checking out. They finished first, but were stopped at the exit doors by the manager, and as I finished up, 2 police officers arrived and handcuffed them. In and amongst their coats, they had squirreled away lots and lots of items. So while they appeared to be on the up and up by checking out, what they had attempted to steal was far more expensive, apparently. So clearly, they had been being watched, I'm sure through the overhead cameras, for quite some time.
Oh, and that reminds me of another incident. I like to use the self check outs if I only have a few items. I walked up to one and it was in the middle of a transaction (someone had scanned a bunch of items, but had not yet paid). The rest were all busy, so I waited. The attendant walked over and said I could use the empty one. I indicated it looked like someone was in the middle of something, and she swore (quietly) and said no, someone had run off without paying. She'd been watching all 6 self checks when another customer had asked her for help with something and while she was attending them, the other left.
So bottom line, people who want to steal will steal with or without bags.
Every store charges for plastic bags or any bag. You're dodging what everyone should know, that anything you get from a store costs you money, it is built-into the price of good sold.
In California, they are now all charging for bags, soon to come to a store near you because this scam is going to propagate throughout the county.
The questions to you are simple:
Do you believe the stores weren't somehow factoring the cost of bags into the prices they charge you?
Then one more question:
Do you believe that after the ban, they eliminated including the cost of bags in the prices you pay for goods simple because they no longer have to give you one as they did before?
If your answer is yes, then really it becomes one of those its just a little thing. Well, isn't that was the idea of being "green" is? Little things that collectively add up to something better? Instead, a little bit of money sucked from you every time you care less means a lot to the people who crafted the ban.
They counted on those who don't think through ideas, want quick feel good results that in the end just cost people money and provide no substantial benefit. They learn well and they will come calling again and those who believe will cough up more money, not to accomplish anything real, but just to feel good.
A ma and pa store would, that's why their prices are higher. Do you think walmart charges you for their electricity bill? Water bill? rent? That's not how big business works. They make money selling in bulk and mass.
Until you can show me evidence suggesting otherwise, I see your statements as hearsay.
A ma and pa store would, that's why their prices are higher. Do you think walmart charges you for their electricity bill? Water bill? rent? That's not how big business works. They make money selling in bulk and mass.
Until you can show me evidence suggesting otherwise, I see your statements as hearsay.
You have me laughing now.
Who do you think pays for the electricity, water and rent at Walmart? You pay for it. That is exactly how business works.
I don't usually go this far to educate people but in this case I'm making an exception because it seems like there are quite a few who don't understand how a business works.
Regardless of the business so long as it is a for profit (that would include Walmart):
The business has costs to keep running These are things like space/building rent/lease or mortgage, electricity, water, maybe natural gas, landscaping, signage, advertising, employee salaries and benefits and BAGS, the list goes on. Good so far? Okay, that can loosely be called "overhead" or in simple terms, expenses the business has but which they do not sell. You can equate that to your water bill, electricity, gas, rent/mortgage for your home to be a home.
Good so far?
Now, the business sells things beit goods or services. There are also expenses to obtaining those things so they can sell them. For services it could be labor and for goods it could be groceries. Following?
Now, where does the money to pay for the overhead come from?
Do you think it comes from the store owners or shareholders?
No, it comes from you, the customer.
Where do you think the money comes from to buy the items the store sells? Do you think it comes from the store owners or shareholders?
No, it comes from you, the customer.
How can this be you ask? Well, that too is simple. When you buy something from a store, you don't pay what the store pays to get it do you? No, the store charges a profit or markup in simple terms. The difference between what they buy it for and what you pay for it is called margin or profit. (NOTE: I am using simple terms to make this easier to understand)
Now, they aren't just adding a profit to the actual cost of the item you buy and asking you to pay that. They add in all the other costs too, as in overhead on top of what they pay for item. Then they add profit to that and THAT is what you pay.
Example: Walmart sells a widgit. The actual price of the widgit Walmart pays is $1.00 (1 dollar)
The overhead part of what it takes Walmart to open it doors and keep everything running is $.20 (20 cents)
Now, each widgit costs Walmart $1.20 to put on the shelf for you to buy. Follow so far? That $1.20 includes Walmarts cost of a bag and all the other things I mentioned and then some. Got it?
So now Walmart has this widgit that costs them $1.20 to put on the shelf and then you come along. You are looking for a Widgit. Can Walmart sell the widgit to you for $1.20 and make any money? Well, the widgit only cost them $1.00 right? According to you, Walmart pays for the electricity and all the other overhead so sure, they would make 20 cents on each Widigit. If they sold a million widgits, according to you, they would make 20,000 dollars in profit right?
Not so fast. What happens to the money it costs Walmart to pay for the overhead? That is $20,000 for every 1 million widgits they sell. Where does that money come from?
It doesn't matter how many widgits they sell, if they only charge $1.20 for each Widgit they would make no profit at all. How long do you think Walmart could stay in business or do you think they are a charity?
No, Walmart isn't a charity. So Walmart charges you $2.00 for that widgit. 20 cents goes to cover the overhead it costs them to put that widgit on the shelf and $1.00 goes to covering their cost of buying the widgit only. That leaves how much? 80 cents.
The 80 could be considered profit and for this example it is.
Now, if Walmart sells a million widgits at $2.00 each, they would have a profit of 80,000 dollars.
In summary:
the $2.00 price of a widgit is broken down like this:
$1.00 goes to buy the widgit from the people Walmart buys it from.
$.20 (20 cents) goes to overheard INCLUDING the BAG regardless if you take one or not
$.80 (80 cents) is profit.
That should clear things up a bit and show how a store charges you for everything it takes to run that store INCLUDING bags.
If this doesn't show in basic terms how it works there isn't much to say other than a course or book in basic business development will tell you the same thing but in greater detail.
YOU are paying for everything it costs a business to do business including a BAG whether you like it not. The big difference in what I have been saying is that now the businesses are charging you directly for a bag that they have already charged you for in the price of the items you buy.
There is no such thing as FREE when it comes to getting something from a business. Even if they tell you to your face something is free, it is not, customers are paying for it. If you don't believe that, well then, that is one of the reasons laws like the bag ban get passed and some people think it is okay to pay for something they have already paid for.
If you think this was all heresay, so be it. Languish in the bliss of well...
Who do you think pays for the electricity, water and rent at Walmart? You pay for it. That is exactly how business works.
I don't usually go this far to educate people but in this case I'm making an exception because it seems like there are quite a few who don't understand how a business works.
Regardless of the business so long as it is a for profit (that would include Walmart):
The business has costs to keep running These are things like space/building rent/lease or mortgage, electricity, water, maybe natural gas, landscaping, signage, advertising, employee salaries and benefits and BAGS, the list goes on. Good so far? Okay, that can loosely be called "overhead" or in simple terms, expenses the business has but which they do not sell. You can equate that to your water bill, electricity, gas, rent/mortgage for your home to be a home.
Good so far?
Now, the business sells things beit goods or services. There are also expenses to obtaining those things so they can sell them. For services it could be labor and for goods it could be groceries. Following?
Now, where does the money to pay for the overhead come from?
Do you think it comes from the store owners or shareholders?
No, it comes from you, the customer.
Where do you think the money comes from to buy the items the store sells? Do you think it comes from the store owners or shareholders?
No, it comes from you, the customer.
How can this be you ask? Well, that too is simple. When you buy something from a store, you don't pay what the store pays to get it do you? No, the store charges a profit or markup in simple terms. The difference between what they buy it for and what you pay for it is called margin or profit. (NOTE: I am using simple terms to make this easier to understand)
Now, they aren't just adding a profit to the actual cost of the item you buy and asking you to pay that. They add in all the other costs too, as in overhead on top of what they pay for item. Then they add profit to that and THAT is what you pay.
Example: Walmart sells a widgit. The actual price of the widgit Walmart pays is $1.00 (1 dollar)
The overhead part of what it takes Walmart to open it doors and keep everything running is $.20 (20 cents)
Now, each widgit costs Walmart $1.20 to put on the shelf for you to buy. Follow so far? That $1.20 includes Walmarts cost of a bag and all the other things I mentioned and then some. Got it?
So now Walmart has this widgit that costs them $1.20 to put on the shelf and then you come along. You are looking for a Widgit. Can Walmart sell the widgit to you for $1.20 and make any money? Well, the widgit only cost them $1.00 right? According to you, Walmart pays for the electricity and all the other overhead so sure, they would make 20 cents on each Widigit. If they sold a million widgits, according to you, they would make 20,000 dollars in profit right?
Not so fast. What happens to the money it costs Walmart to pay for the overhead? That is $20,000 for every 1 million widgits they sell. Where does that money come from?
It doesn't matter how many widgits they sell, if they only charge $1.20 for each Widgit they would make no profit at all. How long do you think Walmart could stay in business or do you think they are a charity?
No, Walmart isn't a charity. So Walmart charges you $2.00 for that widgit. 20 cents goes to cover the overhead it costs them to put that widgit on the shelf and $1.00 goes to covering their cost of buying the widgit only. That leaves how much? 80 cents.
The 80 could be considered profit and for this example it is.
Now, if Walmart sells a million widgits at $2.00 each, they would have a profit of 80,000 dollars.
In summary:
the $2.00 price of a widgit is broken down like this:
$1.00 goes to buy the widgit from the people Walmart buys it from.
$.20 (20 cents) goes to overheard INCLUDING the BAG regardless if you take one or not
$.80 (80 cents) is profit.
That should clear things up a bit and show how a store charges you for everything it takes to run that store INCLUDING bags.
If this doesn't show in basic terms how it works there isn't much to say other than a course or book in basic business development will tell you the same thing but in greater detail.
YOU are paying for everything it costs a business to do business including a BAG whether you like it not. The big difference in what I have been saying is that now the businesses are charging you directly for a bag that they have already charged you for in the price of the items you buy.
There is no such thing as FREE when it comes to getting something from a business. Even if they tell you to your face something is free, it is not, customers are paying for it. If you don't believe that, well then, that is one of the reasons laws like the bag ban get passed and some people think it is okay to pay for something they have already paid for.
If you think this was all heresay, so be it. Languish in the bliss of well...
This is about the 10th time now that you have said the exact same thing, I think everyone in here can read? Regardless if we agree or disagree on whether or not a plastic bag charge occurs and whether or not someone cares, I will look at this from your shoes.
What is there to do about it? You can come in here and say that people are blind for not catching this, but what step can they take to correct this?
In this way of thinking, I would bet you aren't in favor of self-checkout lines neither?
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,206,701 times
Reputation: 57822
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent
Even stores that have banned plastic bags at checkout usually have plastic produce or bulk bags. Use those. Or buy your own. There are pet waste bag dispensers all over my neighborhood, so I'm certain the bags are available from retailers.
As for your second point, everything is perfectly visible inside the cart when one is standing at the checkout before the items are placed in reusable bags. How is that any different than putting items in paper bags or the previously provided plastic ones from the perspective of loss prevention? The answer is: It's not.
Yes, and at every store we go to we hand the cashier the empty reusable bag, if we had placed a bottle of wine or even some green onions in there he/she would notice. The Costco exit people are looking for someone that grabs something after they pay, and that's hard because you would have to go back through
one of the checkouts the wrong way.
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