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Amidst all the silly rhetoric here, Governor Jerry Brown signed into California law the first statewide ban on single use plastic grocery bags. (emphasis added)
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California Becomes First State To Ban Single-Use Plastic Bags
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday signed the nation's first statewide ban on single-use plastic bags at grocery and convenience stores, driven to action by pollution in streets and waterways.
A national coalition of plastic bag manufacturers immediately said it would seek a voter referendum to repeal the law, which is scheduled to take effect in July 2015.
Under SB270, plastic bags will be phased out of checkout counters at large grocery stores and supermarkets such as Wal-Mart and Target starting next summer, and convenience stores and pharmacies in 2016. The law does not apply to bags used for fruits, vegetables or meats, or to shopping bags used at other retailers. It allows grocers to charge a fee of at least 10 cents for using paper bags.
State Sen. Alex Padilla, D-Los Angeles, credits the momentum for statewide legislation to the more than 100 cities and counties, including Los Angeles and San Francisco, that already have such bans.
Hawai'i was actually the first state in which a ban was enacted across the entire state, in 2012, but it was accomplished by individual bans by all the counties, so California claims the "first" because it was done with state law.
It's quite logical that these two states, both leaders in ecological sensitivity and both benefiting economically from heavy tourist traffic, would be the leaders in cleaning up this highly visible, but totally unnecessary source of pollution.
Really, the flimsy plastic bags are completely optional, and readily replaced by several more viable options, yet they pollute waterways and fields and roadways and kill wildlife and spoil scenic views. And the cost to consumers to avoid this source of pollution is tiny... pennies, really. Why would any clear thinking adult object?
I do get a $.10 discount for every reusable bag and container I bring from home and use while shopping. With few exceptions, I use bags and containers I already owned, so there was no additional cost to me specific to any plastic bag ban. There is no surcharge for a paper bag if I forget my bags at home when shopping.
I do get a $.10 discount for every reusable bag and container I bring from home and use while shopping. With few exceptions, I use bags and containers I already owned, so there was no additional cost to me specific to any plastic bag ban. There is no surcharge for a paper bag if I forget my bags at home when shopping.
I read your post, carefully. "You" get the discount. Most do not. While I applaud your efforts and believe you are sincere, the law affects everyone, not just the few.
Note that there is no mechanism in the law to provide for the discount you are getting for every reusable bag and container?
So I ask you, if the stores were required to give each and every customer a discount for using their own reusable bags, do you think the law would have passed or would it have died in the same back roomin which it was drafted?
There is a surcharge for a paper bag if you don't bring one. Again, not you specifically but "you" as in almost everyone else. Lets talk about what happens most of the time, not our individual experiences. Obviously you happen to frequent stores that see customers as more than a revenue stream and perhaps have some form of social conscious. Think that applies to all the large brand stores where most people shop? I don't happen to think it does.
Did you know that stores like Home Depot and Lowes are following suit? No bag of any kind. You pay for the bag or have to bring one and they do not give you a discount if you do. Where is the money going?
If stores were required to provide a discount equal to the charge of a bag if the customer brings their own bag, the law would ever have seen the light of day. I'm pretty sure we all know that.
Lets not forget one thing. Once this bad goes nationwide, it is billions upon billion of dollars, year in, year out that once was already factored into the price of goods and no longer will be.
The prices won't go down will they? That is the crux of it right there. If prices came down commensurately, fine but who really believes they are or will?
Follow the money and it is no longer your money, it is now theirs.
Lets not forget one thing. Once this bad goes nationwide, it is billions upon billion of dollars, year in, year out that once was already factored into the price of goods and no longer will be.
The prices won't go down will they? That is the crux of it right there. If prices came down commensurately, fine but who really believes they are or will?
Follow the money and it is no longer your money, it is now theirs.
Such a big fuss over practically nothing. Seriously. It's pennies on an average grocery store bill. No big whip at all!
Meanwhile, over time the "white ghosts" will stop flying, stop catching in the trees and fences, stop getting into the waterways, stop choking the wildlife. Because after all, THAT is the prime reason so many millions of people support the bans, because the thicker bags and the trash bags just aren't a big issue by themselves, but the flimsy one-use bags definitely are.
Don't you love it when people talk about the money as being only pennies? Well, if it is truly pennies, then why make the customers pay them? That same tired logic is what car dealers use on the gullible when push comes to shove on price. "It's only a few dollars, are you going to let that stop you from buying the car?" If it means little, then why insist you and not the dealer absorb the cost?
It should be interesting and truly a shock for some to know that the average profit margin on grocery items is pennies on the dollar. Yes folks, about 2.5 cents per dollar of items sold. How can they stay in business? Volume. Once again, the go before think aren't paying attention. Pennies mean everything in the grocery sales industry.
If this wasn't about money and all about the environment, then why charge the customer for a paper bag that wasn't being charged for before?
It is common knowledge and a fact (except the the believe anything crowd) that the large chain stores claim the money being charged for paper bags goes to help paying for the bags.
If you can think, try to think or pretend to think, they were already charging for the bags as part of the their prices for goods sold. What changed, a concern for the environment suddenly becomes part of the price of apples and getting them home?
As usual, the deflect, disguise and distract crowd hover around to talk about anything but the issue.
The same logic as paying for bags could be used to make you pay for the parking space at their stores because after all, that money could be used to educate people about air pollution. Control and money.
If this was all about pennies and not many of them, then why are customers the ones to pay up? It is billions of dollars. How many people go to a grocery store every day? Millions. Now start adding it up.
The average is 32 million people per day visit a grocery store. Go look it up, it is easy to find the facts.
Those people used to get a grocery bag as part of the price they paid for items. Add it up. 32 million x 10 cents which is the common number used to justify the charge.
$3,200,000 per day! Every day, every week, month and year.$3,200,000 x 365=
$1,168,000,000 per year, every year. Pennies? No, billions.
This is the ruse of the distract crowd. They claim it is pennies. Somewhere along the line they forgot how to multiply.
Did grocery items go down in price $1,168,000,000 when the plastic bag ban became law? Do you think it will?
Last edited by Mack Knife; 10-01-2014 at 10:29 PM..
Amidst all the silly rhetoric here, Governor Jerry Brown signed into California law the first statewide ban on single use plastic grocery bags. (emphasis added)
Hawai'i was actually the first state in which a ban was enacted across the entire state, in 2012, but it was accomplished by individual bans by all the counties, so California claims the "first" because it was done with state law.
It's quite logical that these two states, both leaders in ecological sensitivity and both benefiting economically from heavy tourist traffic, would be the leaders in cleaning up this highly visible, but totally unnecessary source of pollution.
Really, the flimsy plastic bags are completely optional, and readily replaced by several more viable options, yet they pollute waterways and fields and roadways and kill wildlife and spoil scenic views. And the cost to consumers to avoid this source of pollution is tiny... pennies, really. Why would any clear thinking adult object?
So instead of cracking down on littering, we have to ban plastic bags for everyone to account for a few disgusting pigs? In places like Japan, you rarely see litter. That's because they put social pressure on not littering, not because they devolve into a nanny state as a result of a few pigs.
There should really be more public education on how to use plastic bags resourcefully, make the most of them, and the importance of proper disposal. But then, that doesn't weedle out any money out of shoppers, does it?
It's not like plastic bags are the only litter item. What's next on the to-ban list?
So instead of cracking down on littering, we have to ban plastic bags for everyone to account for a few disgusting pigs? In places like Japan, you rarely see litter. That's because they put social pressure on not littering, not because they devolve into a nanny state as a result of a few pigs.
There should really be more public education on how to use plastic bags resourcefully, make the most of them, and the importance of proper disposal. But then, that doesn't weedle out any money out of shoppers, does it?
It's not like plastic bags are the only litter item. What's next on the to-ban list?
Oh, don't worry, excess food waste is next and already in the news. Throw away too much food? Get fined.
The green groupies have a new hobby, controlling what other people do.
So instead of cracking down on littering, we have to ban plastic bags for everyone to account for a few disgusting pigs? In places like Japan, you rarely see litter. That's because they put social pressure on not littering, not because they devolve into a nanny state as a result of a few pigs.
It's dangerous trying to compare totally different cultures, especially when you don't have a full picture. I mean really, how do you explain 200 different flavors of Twix candy bars, including horseradish and giant clam? While it is true that there is less littering in Japan, there is also a much more highly structured system of mandatory recycling. I read an article and saw photos of someone at a recycling point in their neighborhood which had 17 different bins for different categories, with stern admonitions to put everything in the correct bin!
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There should really be more public education on how to use plastic bags resourcefully, make the most of them, and the importance of proper disposal. But then, that doesn't weedle out any money out of shoppers, does it?
Pennies, literally pennies. Not enough to be a real issue for anybody, but just like the 5 cents refundable deposit on soda cans here in Hawai'i have a powerful effect on reducing cans as a source of litter here, the few cents that might be charged for a paper bag encourages people to bring reusable bags.
All in all, it is a very inexpensive way to modify the behavior of the public.
Don't you love it when people talk about the money as being only pennies?
I thought you had me on Ignore! What, got tired of missing all the really good stuff?
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Well, if it is truly pennies, then why make the customers pay them?
Simple. It's all about behavior modification. Give away a bag and it's treated as something worthless. Charge a nickle and suddenly it's got value and psychologically that's very different from being worthless. That's why you see things on sale for $99.99 rather than $100. Seems silly, but research has proved it really works. And those pennies charged for for formerly free bags act as a motivator for the public to adopt the desired behavior, which is to bring reusable bags.
BTW, you probably missed this before since you had me on Ignore, but you've totally mangled the Bible verse you have as your Status. It's not about mice, but gnats... tiny bugs that are attracted to water or wine... that people try to strain out of their drink. And strain as used here means using a sieve or a screen, not the sense of struggling or choking.
Here you go, the actual quote, in several translations. After all, accuracy is everything, right?
Matthew 23:24
King James 2000 Bible: You blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel.
New International Version: You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
New Living Translation: Blind guides! You strain your water so you won't accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel!
New American Standard Bible: You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
American Standard Version: Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!
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