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Well, some people use the right tools or equipment for the purpose while others do not.
Using solar panels to harvest sunlight, convert that to electric and then heat water makes no sense unless done on an industrial scale.
Using solar hot water collectors to provide hot water does.
People heat huge swimming pools to temperatures beyond those comfortable to sit in using solar hot water collectors. I doubt your hot water storage system is 10,000 gallons; I could be wrong though.
When the sun doesn't shine, you use either an off-grid storage system to provide power or if your system is grid tied, it doesn't matter, you always have power.
As for panels getting dirty. You mentioned it rains. Rain cleans the panels. Other than that, very little cleaning is needed.
Instead of an Internet search, try actual experience, it works better.
Ive been doing this for close to 40 years. I havent lived in a house that was hooked up to the grid in my whole life. I even drove around a wood powered vw bus in the 1970's.
I have 4 patents on solar trackers and 2 on PM alternators which I still produce today. I know quite alot about this in theory, application and implimention.
Solar panels today are a waste of money if you are looking to generate any real power. They will light your lights. That is about it.
You will never, ever generate the amount of power you need from solar power without spending more than the house cost.
The only places that they work worth a crap are the south west desert and outerspace and even there they get hot and lose capacity.
Get a bicycle and put a 200w generator on it. You can get exercise and make much more power than the solar panels will and be healthier too.
I got about 20kwh per day of useful power. Like I said. Barely heated the water.
Cant use solar water collectors where I live. Too cold.
I tried heatpipes but they have the same problem with tracking and snow dosent melt off of them.
I have friends in the mountains in NM and CO who have solar water heaters that work fine. You'd probably do better to plug into the grid to heat your water in winter, and use your panels to sell energy to the utility, if they're set up to buy from customers where you live.
By the way. I generate most of my power with coal. I have a 7.000 sq ft house and a 30kw generator that is powered with a coal gassifier. I have a wood stove that I use as backup but besides that I produce all my power from coal to heat the house, water, cook, lights, pumps and even melt the snow from the driveway. Yearly I use about 12 tons of coal per year. Thats about $360 per year.
Installed my 20kwh system would be about $5 per watt today. That is about $100,000 and is really only good for about 15 years. That is about $6500 per year vs $360. Which is really cheaper and more efficient?
Last edited by Jedcolton; 04-16-2013 at 10:50 PM..
What are you. Somew kid at school with a calculator.
Try getting some real experience.
I have a big roof.
What people dont ever seem to concider is that the sun only shines 8-12 hours per day. That is if the clouds dont obstruct it or dirt dosent get all over them. They also only reach maximim output when the sun is perpendicular to the panel. If you dont have trackers you will collect much less power.
I averaged about 4kwh per hour and 30kwh per day form the 20kw.
If you feed that into a battery you lose around 20% then
lose it on the way back out thru the inverter and losses in the wiring. I got about 20kwh per day of useful power. Like I said. Barely heated the water.
Cant use solar water collectors where I live. Too cold.
I tried heatpipes but they have the same problem with tracking and snow dosent melt off of them.
You claim to consume 3 thousand kWh per month? Color me skeptical.
How do you come up with 3000kwh?
20KWH x 30 days is 600kwh max
The whole purpose of alternate energy is to be self sufficient at a cost that is somewhat comparable to grid power or trying to reduce the enviromental impact by reducing polution. Very little of the equipment produced today will do either.
What are you. Somew kid at school with a calculator.
Try getting some real experience.
I have a big roof.
What people dont ever seem to concider is that the sun only shines 8-12 hours per day. That is if the clouds dont obstruct it or dirt dosent get all over them. They also only reach maximim output when the sun is perpendicular to the panel. If you dont have trackers you will collect much less power.
I averaged about 4kwh per hour and 30kwh per day form the 20kw.
If you feed that into a battery you lose around 20% then
lose it on the way back out thru the inverter and losses in the wiring. I got about 20kwh per day of useful power. Like I said. Barely heated the water.
Cant use solar water collectors where I live. Too cold.
I tried heatpipes but they have the same problem with tracking and snow dosent melt off of them.
I guess there is no summer where you live? 30kwh per day and you can't heat water?
You lose 20% going into batteries and then lose more through the inverter and wiring? Like I said, some do it wrong, some right. Maybe it's time to rethink how your system was designed and installed.
How do you come up with 3000kwh?
20KWH x 30 days is 600kwh max
The whole purpose of alternate energy is to be self sufficient at a cost that is somewhat comparable to grid power or trying to reduce the enviromental impact by reducing polution. Very little of the equipment produced today will do either.
Solar power will indeed do both. Most people who detract from solar power simply have no idea what they are talking about other than what comes from someone else who couldn't connect a battery to a light bulb.
There are more than the reasons you state for using solar power. In many cases the reason is self sufficiency, not trying to match grid power costs nor reducing pollution.
Properly designed and properly installed, solar power can and does provide sufficient electrical energy to allow one to maintain a comfortable lifestyle, when it comes to powering modern equipment or appliances that use electric. What many people who detract from solar power do is try to compare one thing to another without considering they are as different as apples and oranges.
There is a significant difference between using grid sourced electric and that provided by solar power systems. Yes, there are some people that will say the end result is what matters and while that can be true, it doesn't make any sense. If you want to travel from LA to NY via car and compare how that is accomplished using a Yugo or a Mercedes 500 they might both get there but how they do it and the perception of comfort, convenience and so on have very little relation to one another.
Comparing grid power to solar is pure hokey. First you must establish the expectations. If you leave TVs on all day, heat rooms that remain vacant, use hundreds of gallons of hot water, heat all your food in a microwave, then sure, solar probably isn't the solution nor should it be expected to provide the energy resources to do that. Why on earth would anyone try to use a system for which is isn't designed and then complain or state it can't do that? That is deficient thinking.
Solar power as an individual user is meant to be one part of a total system to provide energy resources, not the holy grail or cure all for inefficient lifestyles.
The first step in any solar power system is to define the expectations, then analyze the current energy use rates and then decide what portion of that use rate can be adequately provided by the solar power system. Sometimes solar power can be the total solution, sometimes not.
The problems come from a lack of critical thinking, not the inability os solar power to provide the necessary energy resources.
I just ate an apple and darn, it didn't taste like an orange. Therefore, the apple didn't provide me with what I think it should.
By the way. I generate most of my power with coal. I have a 7.000 sq ft house and a 30kw generator that is powered with a coal gassifier. I have a wood stove that I use as backup but besides that I produce all my power from coal to heat the house, water, cook, lights, pumps and even melt the snow from the driveway. Yearly I use about 12 tons of coal per year. Thats about $360 per year.
Installed my 20kwh system would be about $5 per watt today. That is about $100,000 and is really only good for about 15 years. That is about $6500 per year vs $360. Which is really cheaper and more efficient?
Did you factor in the installed cost of the generator, the maintenance for that system? You use the installed costs of solar but seem to use only the fuel costs for the coal fired generator system. The generator and it's related systems and maintenance are free? Not buying that. I'm not saying that those costs would make solar less expensive but if you compare one installed cost to only the fuel cost of another, your comparison isn't valid.
Will your generator last 15 years without a major overhaul or replacement? Doubtful. It will require significant maintenance over that period of time. Oil changes, filter changes, fuel system maintenance and so on. Is there a license required for the generator? In many locations a special license is required to use a coal or fossil fuel fired generator for residential use.
If you can run your generator for a total cost of $360 per year, I can sell those systems all day and eliminate any energy shortages in this country practically overnight. I don't believe it.
That generator probably cost much more than 10k to which is added the costs of installation, system design, configuration and so on. Since you applied those same costs to the solar power system you must also apply them to your comparison.
Still, it would be interesting to see the actual costs of procurement, installation, maintenance for your system in total and then run that against a solar power system at a reasonable installed cost (which is not $5/watt BTW).
Also, did you factor the 30% tax credit (cash in your pocket) for solar? I doubt you got that much, if any for installing that coal fired system.
There is summer. But not so much. But there is a lot of sunshine.
It takes about 8kw to heat a 50 gallon water heater from around 70F. Water here even in the summer is 50f or less so it takes more. if you have a fammily you will need to heat that tank at least 3 times perhaps m more.
Charging a battery is not free. Even the better battery chargers/charge controllers are less than 90% efficient. You always have eddy current and hysteresis losses in the transformers not to mention resistance losses in diodes and wiring. There is a reason those diodes and transistors are attached to huge heat sinks.
Batteries themselves also have specific charge/discharge efficiencies with lots of varriables. This efficiency can be between 50 and 90% More than likely near 75%
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