Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
um, it's like with anything, there are positives and negatives. as long as china doesn't adopt everything about american culture, government or ways that would not be a fitting model for china or would end up undermining it then they should be okay.
Huh? My posts are specific to the idea of empire, part of the title of the thread. China has done incredibly well since throwing off the shackles of the worst of Maoism.
Nowhere have I mentioned what is or is not "okay." Any such discussions are pointless. Rather, what we can objectively discuss are the impacts of Chinese style governance on the Chinese people, American workers, or glbal citizens.
Turning a positive discussion into something normative is of little use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
if america is so successful, they wouldn't be declining and they wouldn't be having the problems it has so evidently it's not perfect either.
for instance, america is too soft on drug crime and this is the tip of the iceberg. yet they will put someone in prison for years that is hooked on drugs which is focused in the wrong direction and is cruel. it's these unrealistic policies that don't make sense.
What one learns when engaging in poolitical discourse, is that people will read what trhey want to read rather than actually bother to keep the mind open and following arguments.
What I talked about was the success of the American model. This is so obvious that it seems pointless to discuss. Just visit countries. Last time I checked we are not traveling by sedan chair, hearing Chinese being spoken by two Asians transacting business in a third country, attending Chinese universities to get MBAs, etc. These have been promoted by a stable US following the end of WW2 (yes, even the English).
There is no need to get into a discussion over opinions of success, since opinions themselves are useless. Just observe and the facts speak volumes to the success of America's business models.
Declining? LOL! You see what you want to see. Don;t be so naive. In this day and age of media, you must understand that America feels no shame in discussing its worst problems publically. It has a history of raking its elected leaders over the coals and punishing them for moral and ethical transgressions. In Iran, such vocal and public opposition is met with hanging. In the Latin America of the 1970s, people disappeared. In China, you are jailed.
As far as decline, the US grows in fits and starts. However, growth has averaged about 3% per annum for the past 40 years. Not bad for a big country. The high growth rates in China and India reflect a past of incompetence and a burning esire to catch up.
We are doing fine. Our problems are not those of decline but of temporary bouts with utopianism and wishing the world were not so spiteful toward US loeadership.
The US model is increasing in value. The US economy plods along.
Drug: America is already harsh enough. I would rather see drugs legalized and heavily regulated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
china will execute and nip the spade in a heartbeat. if you aren't serious, what you want eradicated will continue to flourish. if you know something is harmful why play charades with it. china doesn't play around with known criminals and use tax dollars to support them keeping murderers and rapists alive with repeat offenders. if they know they are dangerous or will be a continuing problem, they nip it in the bud and get rid of it
This is great until you are the one that is targeted!
And this point is nontrivial.
A number of political dissidents have been jailed and executed not for threatening a bloody coup for for arguing, often quite eloquently, for reason and consensus to underlie public policy.
If you have any understanding of Chinese history, you would learn quite quickly that the power of the state does in fact corrupt absolutely.
The Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, etc. these reflect the corruptibility of concentrating power.
China's great successes singe Deng have been to move toward the principles of the Enlightenment--to the great benefit of the Chinese people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
i'm not saying china is right or handles everything the best way but it has it's strong or more realistic or honest points too.
How China handles Tibet, Mongolia, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, the Spratley Islands, the rest of Asia, its investments in Africa, and trade/currency disputes with the US and Europe will be telling.
Obviously, the "American Empire" is not a empire like the ancient empires.
It is not based on territorial conquest and people domination. Its domination is financial, economic, techonological and military.
I am an USA' admirer (american way of life) and sadly I see all this things happening.
However, many time in many situations, we see (by media)some americans behave like real imperialists. This behavior has frustrated allies and non allies countries.
IMHO - Our empire is described in great detail in chamers Johnson's books: From Wikki
Johnson sees that the enforcement of American hegemony over the world constitutes a new form of global empire. Whereas traditional empires maintained control over subject peoples via colonies, since World War II the US has developed a vast system of hundreds of military bases around the world where it has strategic interests. A long-time Cold Warrior, he applauded the collapse of the Soviet Union: I was a cold warrior. There's no doubt about that. I believed the Soviet Union was a genuine menace. I still think so.[1] But at the same time he experienced a political awakening after the USSR 1989 collapse, noting that instead of demobilizing its armed forces, the US accelerated its reliance on military solutions to problems both economic and political. The result of this militarism (as distinct from actual domestic defense) is more terrorism against the US and its allies, the loss of core democratic values at home, and an eventual disaster for the American economy. The books of the trilogy are:
Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire
The Sorrows of Empire: Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic
Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic.
We are a military empire and the cost of supporting that empire has exceeded the benefit for several decades and will eventually bankrupt our country.
The US population is at 300 million and growing still. That means more consumers and more workers, and thus GDP and PPP will rise. We do not have a demographics problem and our culture supports consumerism.
There is no equivalent to the US culture abroad. They are all either saving, have demographics problems, or governmental problems to really spawn growth.
The US isn't an empire and hasn't been since we swept across the continental US. What we are is a superpower. Russia is crippled and won't regain that position anytime soon. China may become a superpower, but how they manage to maintain that growth is beyond me, and longer-term, they have demographics problems.
Thus, I see no real threat to US interests in the near future. And, don't forget, our culture, food, products, and military are nearly everywhere. Nobody's going to approach that for a long time.
The US population is at 300 million and growing still. That means more consumers and more workers, and thus GDP and PPP will rise. We do not have a demographics problem and our culture supports consumerism.
Much of our current economic problem is due to our demographics problem.
Our consumerism is due to families and as you see we are entering an era of fewer families as compared to 15 years ago. The 45-55 cohort is much larger than the one behind it, this will cause massive problems.
Obviously, the "American Empire" is not a empire like the ancient empires.
It is not based on territorial conquest and people domination. Its domination is financial, economic, techonological and military.
I am an USA' admirer (american way of life) and sadly I see all this things happening.
However, many time in many situations, we see (by media)some americans behave like real imperialists. This behavior has frustrated allies and non allies countries.
One of the sad facts of modern life is that Latin America and Europe consistently misread the US and her behavior. It never ceases to amaze me. Europe's view of the US is clouded by their past and the legacy of empires lost long ago. With Latin America, everything is viewed from the perspective of Latin socialism and US intervention.
I hope one day to see major media, intellectuals, and leaders of Latin countries drop the dreadfully obsolete Marxist stereotypes of the US. As Europe as formed the EU and China rising, the relationships in the Americas are long overdue for improvement.
I hope that one day soon Latin America can drop its default attraction to "revolutionary" psychobabble and instead join the modern age of pragmatism and progress. Clearly, the popularity of Chavez, who is literally running Venezuela into the ground, suggests that this time has not yet arrived.
I want make explicit I am not a fanatic religious, but in my opinion, the main cause of the USA trouble is its alienation from God.
This nation was built under the Divine principles, but has long abandoned God and becoming very materialistic.
For many years, USA was a word of God' exporter. Today is different:
All that is degrading to human behavior is produced and exported by USA.
I am aware the USA is the largest pornography's producer and exporter in the world, involving milions dollars in this business and with other waste, beside the largest drugs consumer market in the world.
Believe this: When you walk away from God, bad things begin to happen.
With Latin America, everything is viewed from the perspective of Latin socialism and US intervention.
.
Maybe the misconception of the Latin Americans is that they have this funny Monroe Doctrine idea, thinking the US unilaterally imposes it on them. whether they like it or not. How wrong could they be! Completely imaginary.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
