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Another thing this lame ass thread is producing in that people think that lighter black folks are some how "better", stupid really.
I actually think some of the darkest black people look the coolest, they have the best skin. They look gorgeous, their deep blackness looks great to me.
No, I'm not Bobby Dinero, but blacks look great to me.
It sounds like you are not understanding the idea of institutionalized racism. I think it is wonderful that you appreciate the beauty in all people. But your reality is not the reality. Your experience is not the experience. Minorites have been told that for centuries that racism is just in their head. That's what makes covert racism, institutionalized racism, so much worse. "That lady int eh store wasn;t following you because you were Black." "That cop didn't pull you over because you were Mexican." It gets tiring and frustrating when you have to constantly prove your truths to others because they are too uncomfortable to see that maybe there is some validity to it. I mean if it were true, then what does that say about them? Right?
A pp talked about a young Black teen who kept bringing up racism in their group. How can you so easily dismiss her experience? Only change will come when the majority stops invalidating the expereinces of the minority and instead of getting defensive, really listens. Invalidating ones victimization is the main way the majority perpetuates their dominance. It's about hegemony.
To answer the op, the historicty of this country is based on assimilation to the White culture. From the very beginning it was about race and skin color. That takes time to move past because it is so engrained in ever aspect of our culture, our history, our traditions. From the paper bag test, to the tradition of house slaves, to Immigration Law, it's a part of who we are and until we acknowledge it and deal with it, it will remain.
I worked in retail stores when I was young, and we watched ALL the customers for potential of shoplifting or price tag switching. And unfortunately, we'd have the most issues with people of colour that acted and spoke a certain way. And being obvious about watching a group of kids walking through the store that by body language told us that they weren't planning to make a purchase from us, well it's much easier to be intimidating as a preventative measure, than to be lax and have do bag checks on their way out of our shop. It's just not worth the hassle to deal with shoplifting after the crime has been committed. So hence the hairy eyeball treatment. And unless someone has worked in retail, they have no idea of how shop clerks wish that there weren't any shoplifters at all.
And the same goes for being a waiter. Until someone has been a waiter, they don't understand how frustrating it is when certain groups of people don't believe in tipping. Stereotyping happens because of repeated negative experiences from the same group or type of people. We don't wake up one day and create fictions just to put down people on a whim. We make these generalizations, based on our personal observations and experiences, in order to protect our own interests. And why shouldn't we look out for ourselves? If we don't, no one else is going to step forward to pick up the slack.
In addition, most stores just can't afford to be P.C. and ignore the shoplifting problem. Being P.C. just doesn't pay the bills. And as an employee, I value and appreciate having a weekly paycheck.
I worked in retail stores when I was young, and we watched ALL the customers for potential of shoplifting or price tag switching. And unfortunately, we'd have the most issues with people of colour that acted and spoke a certain way. And being obvious about watching a group of kids walking through the store that by body language told us that they weren't planning to make a purchase from us, well it's much easier to be intimidating as a preventative measure, than to be lax and have do bag checks on their way out of our shop. It's just not worth the hassle to deal with shoplifting after the crime has been committed. So hence the hairy eyeball treatment. And unless someone has worked in retail, they have no idea of how shop clerks wish that there weren't any shoplifters at all.
And the same goes for being a waiter. Until someone has been a waiter, they don't understand how frustrating it is when certain groups of people don't believe in tipping. Stereotyping happens because of repeated negative experiences from the same group or type of people. We don't wake up one day and create fictions just to put down people on a whim. We make these generalizations, based on our personal observations and experiences, in order to protect our own interests. And why shouldn't we look out for ourselves? If we don't, no one else is going to step forward to pick up the slack.
In addition, most stores just can't afford to be P.C. and ignore the shoplifting problem. Being P.C. just doesn't pay the bills. And as an employee, I value and appreciate having a weekly paycheck.
I have worked in retail, so I understand the issue of shoplifting. However, I disgaree that stereotyping is due to repeat negative experience, but more due to perpetuating the ideas that come from a very narrow view of a group of people based on a persons limited interaction with said group. And when I talk abotu perpetuation, I am talking not only through individuals but through the media and other facits of communication. For example, it is a fact that the majority of serial killers are White men. Something like 75%. But we don't look at every White man and think he is a serial killer. I'm not denying that in your store in your area the majority of those whome you caught shoplifting were "people of color who looked and acted a certain way", but how do you know the people you weren't watching, weren't shoplifting and just getting away with it?
As for PC, I don't believe in being PC. PC means thinking one way, but acting another in order to not offend. I agree 100% that being PC is crap. I would rather people really change the way they think and grow up thinking differently so acceptance is something real and not just a show.
I have worked in retail, so I understand the issue of shoplifting. However, I disgaree that stereotyping is due to repeat negative experience, but more due to perpetuating the ideas that come from a very narrow view of a group of people based on a persons limited interaction with said group. And when I talk abotu perpetuation, I am talking not only through individuals but through the media and other facits of communication. For example, it is a fact that the majority of serial killers are White men. Something like 75%. But we don't look at every White man and think he is a serial killer. I'm not denying that in your store in your area the majority of those whome you caught shoplifting were "people of color who looked and acted a certain way", but how do you know the people you weren't watching, weren't shoplifting and just getting away with it?
As for PC, I don't believe in being PC. PC means thinking one way, but acting another in order to not offend. I agree 100% that being PC is crap. I would rather people really change the way they think and grow up thinking differently so acceptance is something real and not just a show.
We hear a LOT about serial killers when one is caught. It's the only thing on the news for weeks. But you don't hear white people screaming about racial profiling, stereotyping an bigotry when it happens.
That one, several years ago, who was (I believe) in Kansas. Church leader in a Lutheran Church. Why weren't Lutherans all up in arms because the media kept talking about him being Lutheran?
It sounds like you are not understanding the idea of institutionalized racism. I think it is wonderful that you appreciate the beauty in all people. But your reality is not the reality. Your experience is not the experience. Minorites have been told that for centuries that racism is just in their head. That's what makes covert racism, institutionalized racism, so much worse. "That lady int eh store wasn;t following you because you were Black." "That cop didn't pull you over because you were Mexican." It gets tiring and frustrating when you have to constantly prove your truths to others because they are too uncomfortable to see that maybe there is some validity to it. I mean if it were true, then what does that say about them? Right?
A pp talked about a young Black teen who kept bringing up racism in their group. How can you so easily dismiss her experience? Only change will come when the majority stops invalidating the expereinces of the minority and instead of getting defensive, really listens. Invalidating ones victimization is the main way the majority perpetuates their dominance. It's about hegemony.
To answer the op, the historicty of this country is based on assimilation to the White culture. From the very beginning it was about race and skin color. That takes time to move past because it is so engrained in ever aspect of our culture, our history, our traditions. From the paper bag test, to the tradition of house slaves, to Immigration Law, it's a part of who we are and until we acknowledge it and deal with it, it will remain.
I have a couple scenarios and questions for you.
1. In the town where I used to live, there is a major packing plant. Because Mexicans (and yes, I'm talking immigrants from Mexico) are willing to work hard at whatever jobs they can get, there are a lot of Mexicans in that town. Many of them - for whatever reasons - drive cars that are either not licensed properly and/or not insured. Many of them drivers themselves are not licensed. In addition, it appears to be culturally acceptable to them to drive while/after drinking, based on the fact that they often do.
Questions: Is it wrong for the local police to, if they see a Mexican driving poorly, assume he may be intoxicated and/or unlicensed? If so, why? Is that racial profiling? Should the officer pull the person over or not? Why or why not?
2. Here in Omaha, it's 2:00 AM. A police officer sees 5 young black men running out of a convenience store, in an area that is known for gang & drug violence & crime. This is a store that has been robbed several times in the past year.
Questions: Should the officer simply ignore what he sees? If yes, why? If not, why not? Should this officer factor everything - including the time of night, the previous problems at the store, the race of the young men, and their behavior - into his decision to either pursue these young men or leave them alone? Why or why not?
We hear a LOT about serial killers when one is caught. It's the only thing on the news for weeks. But you don't hear white people screaming about racial profiling, stereotyping an bigotry when it happens.
That one, several years ago, who was (I believe) in Kansas. Church leader in a Lutheran Church. Why weren't Lutherans all up in arms because the media kept talking about him being Lutheran?
I don't understand...what bigotry and profiling on Caucasians are you referring to? As for the example of the Lutherans (not sure I know what you are referring to though), last I checked Lutheran wasn't a race. I'm kind of confused.
I don't understand...what bigotry and profiling on Caucasians are you referring to? As for the example of the Lutherans (not sure I know what you are referring to though), last I checked Lutheran wasn't a race. I'm kind of confused.
Of course you don't understand. It's partly because you're so busy looking for racism against blacks - both overt and covert - that you can't see the forest for the trees.
If a serial killer, who was caught, happened to be black - and the media made a 24-hour per day show if it for weeks, you'd be screaming racism. RACISM!!!!
But when a serial killer, who is caught, is a white Lutheran - and the media makes a 24-hour per day show if it for weeks, you don't see anything at all.
That alone is evidence that you're looking at a lot of life with blinders on. You're reading racism into things that aren't necessarily racist.
Questions: Should the officer simply ignore what he sees? If yes, why? If not, why not? Should this officer factor everything - including the time of night, the previous problems at the store, the race of the young men, and their behavior - into his decision to either pursue these young men or leave them alone? Why or why not?
In such a case, one would hope that the police officer would respond the same, irrespective to the racial identity of the young men running out of the store.
1. In the town where I used to live, there is a major packing plant. Because Mexicans (and yes, I'm talking immigrants from Mexico) are willing to work hard at whatever jobs they can get, there are a lot of Mexicans in that town. Many of them - for whatever reasons - drive cars that are either not licensed properly and/or not insured. Many of them drivers themselves are not licensed. In addition, it appears to be culturally acceptable to them to drive while/after drinking, based on the fact that they often do.
Questions: Is it wrong for the local police to, if they see a Mexican driving poorly, assume he may be intoxicated and/or unlicensed? If so, why? Is that racial profiling? Should the officer pull the person over or not? Why or why not?
If an officer sees someone driving poorly or in a car without proper tags, then they should be pulled over regardless of who is behind the wheel. As long as their policy is the same for everyone then what is the issue? My real issue with your question is why you think that it is "culturally acceptable" for Mexicans to drink and drive? According to FBI Crime Reports of 2006, 88.4% of people arrested for DUI were classified as White. I mean I would think the majority fo people who drink and drive are probably younger teens more then anything. See this is how stereotyping become this incidious thing. I don't argue that many people in your area who are pulled over for DUI's are Mexican since it seesm you ahve a high population of Mexican immigrants in your area. However, when you then take that leap of connecting that as some insight into their culture, that is how prejudices are created. Maybe you need to diversify your interractions with the Mexican culture and their people beyond who you've noticed getting pulled over on the way to work.
Quote:
2. Here in Omaha, it's 2:00 AM. A police officer sees 5 young black men running out of a convenience store, in an area that is known for gang & drug violence & crime. This is a store that has been robbed several times in the past year.
Questions: Should the officer simply ignore what he sees? If yes, why? If not, why not? Should this officer factor everything - including the time of night, the previous problems at the store, the race of the young men, and their behavior - into his decision to either pursue these young men or leave them alone? Why or why not?
Again, I would think a police would question group of young kids running out of a convenience store at 2:00 am when the store owner has often complained of criminal activity. The race of the individuals should have nothing to do with it. Suspicious activity is suspicious activity.
It just seesm in each of your examples, race is not the issue and should not be the issue for action on behalf of the officer. Racial profiling means solely looking at the persons race as reason to question them. Neither of your stories fit that definition.
Of course you don't understand. It's partly because you're so busy looking for racism against blacks - both overt and covert - that you can't see the forest for the trees.
If a serial killer, who was caught, happened to be black - and the media made a 24-hour per day show if it for weeks, you'd be screaming racism. RACISM!!!!
But when a serial killer, who is caught, is a white Lutheran - and the media makes a 24-hour per day show if it for weeks, you don't see anything at all.
That alone is evidence that you're looking at a lot of life with blinders on. You're reading racism into things that aren't necessarily racist.
Boy, you sure seem to know alot about me and what I would think or do in certain situations. That's pretty amazing considering I've only been posting here for, oh, a day. Though I am Cuban and Jewish, so therefore prone to being loud , I don't think I have ever screamed the word "RACISM" at a person nor at the tv.
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, I don't think I have ever screamed the word "RACISM" at a person nor at the tv.
