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That's my point. Why are those days gone in America but they're not gone in China and the third world? Why have we even exported strategically important, skilled jobs like pharmaceutical manufacturing to China? Why only in 2021 after a worldwide shortage of semiconductors that has caused a disruption of U.S. manufacturing, are we beginning to talk about breaking ground on 7-10 new domestic semiconductor plants? My only concern with those new semiconductor plants is, when they are up and running will they hire American college graduates or H1B holders?
It is not too late yet.
Governments are deploying ‘wartime-like’ efforts to win the global semiconductor race
Mon, May 17 2021
~ South Korea became the latest country to announce a colossal investment in the industry last week. The nation’s government said Thursday that 510 trillion South Korean won ($452 billion) will be invested in chips by 2030, with the bulk of that coming from private companies in the country.
~ Deep pockets
South Korea’s investment is being led by two of its biggest chip firms: Samsung Electronics and SK Hynix. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/17/semi...chip-race.html
Robust Federal Incentives for Domestic Chip Manufacturing Would Create an Average of Nearly 200,000 American Jobs Annually as Fabs are Built, Add Nearly $25 Billion Annually to U.S. Economy
Semiconductor industry currently employs 277,000 people in the U.S. across 49 states, supports 1.6 million additional U.S. jobs, according to Oxford Economics/SIA study WASHINGTON
Press Release: 05/19/21
The Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), in partnership with Oxford Economics, today released a study analyzing the semiconductor workforce in the United States and the economic benefits that would come from
robust federal investment in domestic chip production. https://www.semiconductors.org/robus...o-u-s-economy/
I'm half way through the book "Deaths of Despair" and the authors lay out quite a case on the growing income differences between those with a 4-year degree and those without. The differences between the two groups are growing, and are growing worse as time goes by for those starting out, i.e., the non-college 20-year-olds born in 1990 are making less starting money than the non-college 20-year-olds born in 1950.
The country has shifted from a brawn-based employment picture to a skills-based employment picture with those who do get a degree heading to skills-based work centers mostly found in coastal areas and some key inland cities like Atlanta, DC, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Austin, Denver, etc. The rest of the country is hollowing out, leaving the non-college people behind and suffering.
I'll post more as I read further in the book.
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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,700 posts, read 58,022,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by id77
As opposed to the average working-class person who is in debt until they die?
I don't disagree that the whole tuition/debt thing needs fixing, though.
Or not.... The majority of my co-workers who were skilled trades, only had mortgage debt. And retired early to a very substantial quality of life. They paid cash for cars, furniture, remodels...they were very successful investors, and usually single income families. Kids paid for their own college, as expected.
My professional (degreed) coworkers were double income, drowning in debt, always striving for more 'stuff' they could not afford. Much higher incidence of divorce, wayward kids, college burden to entire family.
I know a lot of very lonely / single 'professional' (degreed) retirees, scraping by and quite unhappy.
Skilled worker retirees are enjoying the fruits of their labor, in solid marriages with no debt, and never lived above their means. (And benefited from doing so).
The proof is in the ultimate results.
Consider that while striving through your education, career, and planning.
'lifelong earnings' in my skilled trade career field far exceeded the equivalent 'professionals' include the bosses and managers of the bosses. But they were free to 'camp-out' at college for an additional 10 yrs, exiting with no experience and a starting wage...
Or not.... The majority of my co-workers who were skilled trades, only had mortgage debt. And retired early to a very substantial quality of life. They paid cash for cars, furniture, remodels...they were very successful investors, and usually single income families. Kids paid for their own college, as expected.
My professional (degreed) coworkers were double income, drowning in debt, always striving for more 'stuff' they could not afford. Much higher incidence of divorce, wayward kids, college burden to entire family.
I know a lot of very lonely / single 'professional' (degreed) retirees, scraping by and quite unhappy.
Skilled worker retirees are enjoying the fruits of their labor, in solid marriages with no debt, and never lived above their means. (And benefited from doing so).
The proof is in the ultimate results.
Consider that while striving through your education, career, and planning.
'lifelong earnings' in my skilled trade career field far exceeded the equivalent 'professionals' include the bosses and managers of the bosses. But they were free to 'camp-out' at college for an additional 10 yrs, exiting with no experience and a starting wage...
Fortunately, in the USA we have some choices.
My experiences have been about 175 degrees different.
Most of the non-degreed and tradeskill people I know are doing 'ok', but largely subsisting paycheck-to-paycheck, have little to no retirement savings, and are basically going to need Social Security and Medicare to be there for them later in life. They keep up on the car payments, but if a $5,000 need walked up to them, they'd either have to float it on credit cards or get walloped by it. So, I can most assuredly confirm that there are in fact many skilled tradesmen who live well beyond their means and are drowning in debt, just as there are college-degree holders who live well beyond their means and are drowning in debt.
Most of the college-educated people I know are faring much better. Spontaneous trip to London next month? Sure, just pull some cash out of rainy-day savings. Their kids have large 529s that will cover education, so that won't be a burden later on. Most could absorb a $5,000 emergency without blinking. There's also certainly affluent tradesmen who built empires of their work and/or saved religiously who can also do these things.
There's successes and failures on both ends, but the discussion always tends to go to the easily-vilified elements of each. For the educated, it's the 20- or 30- something who spent 8 years on a history or arts degree and has no job prospects despite mountains of student loan debt. For the non-educated, it's the dumb brute who hopes for a high-paying career no more complex than picking things up and putting them down again.
What needs to be the focus is the trending of the job market rather than the individual succcesses/failures of workers. The inescapable reality is that in the 21st century, the world is moving deeper into the Information Age and out of the Industrial Age.
Is everyone cut out for STEM or other in-demand skillsets? No, but here's the thing, and it's a big one: progress doesn't care what we think. Not one little bit. It won't give a single **** about the successes or the failures of individuals, and it doesn't care if people put value on 'honest work' or think that not everyone is meant to be smart or that some non-degree people do beat the odds and ascend or that some highly-educated people fizzle out and fail. There will always be job needs across the entire spectrum, but the bell curve's fat part is moving toward knowledge and thinking as the key labor skill. Future generations can accept this reality and adapt themselves to be in reach of more opportunities, or they can compete for the diminishing pool of good jobs outside of those skills and roll the dice.
Knowing the above, it's in our society's best interests to get more young people ready for tomorrow's job opportunities. The old guard's days of honest, blue-collar/tradeskill work supporting a family as an option for the majority are gone, dead, over, finished. Again, some of those good jobs will always remain, but it seems foolhardy to me to advocate that path as a virtuous or even viable one to aspire to when the writing is so clearly on the wall.
My professional (degreed) coworkers were double income, drowning in debt, always striving for more 'stuff' they could not afford.
Sadly, our educational system doesn't teach students about money management, budgeting, and other aspects of personal finance. The end result is as you describe - some people vastly overestimate the lifestyle that can be supported by even dual income.
There are many stories of pro-sports athletes who make extraordinary income during their productive years, only to end up in bankruptcy a few years down the road - usually the result of poor personal financial management (although sometimes as a result of having been taken advantage of). I recall the story of one bankrupt former NBA player who had dogs in his house, and he never bothered to house-train them; he just had all the carpeting replaced every 2 weeks.
Steph Curry of the Golden State Warriors, with an annual salary of $43 Million is rich.
Peter Guber & Joe Lacob, the men who signs Steph Curry's paycheck are wealthy.
My concern is not so much against a college degree as it is kids coming out with big huge debts with degrees in useless subjects. Sure, if there are still enough STEM jobs open and the student graduates with a useful degree, I totally agree. It is a big scam to have kids borrow for some college experience that does nothing to prepare them for a career.
My experiences have been about 175 degrees different.
Most of the non-degreed and tradeskill people I know are doing 'ok', but largely subsisting paycheck-to-paycheck, have little to no retirement savings, and are basically going to need Social Security and Medicare to be there for them later in life. They keep up on the car payments, but if a $5,000 need walked up to them, they'd either have to float it on credit cards or get walloped by it. So, I can most assuredly confirm that there are in fact many skilled tradesmen who live well beyond their means and are drowning in debt, just as there are college-degree holders who live well beyond their means and are drowning in debt.
Most of the college-educated people I know are faring much better. Spontaneous trip to London next month? Sure, just pull some cash out of rainy-day savings. Their kids have large 529s that will cover education, so that won't be a burden later on. Most could absorb a $5,000 emergency without blinking. There's also certainly affluent tradesmen who built empires of their work and/or saved religiously who can also do these things.
There's successes and failures on both ends, but the discussion always tends to go to the easily-vilified elements of each. For the educated, it's the 20- or 30- something who spent 8 years on a history or arts degree and has no job prospects despite mountains of student loan debt. For the non-educated, it's the dumb brute who hopes for a high-paying career no more complex than picking things up and putting them down again.
What needs to be the focus is the trending of the job market rather than the individual succcesses/failures of workers. The inescapable reality is that in the 21st century, the world is moving deeper into the Information Age and out of the Industrial Age.
Is everyone cut out for STEM or other in-demand skillsets? No, but here's the thing, and it's a big one: progress doesn't care what we think. Not one little bit. It won't give a single **** about the successes or the failures of individuals, and it doesn't care if people put value on 'honest work' or think that not everyone is meant to be smart or that some non-degree people do beat the odds and ascend or that some highly-educated people fizzle out and fail. There will always be job needs across the entire spectrum, but the bell curve's fat part is moving toward knowledge and thinking as the key labor skill. Future generations can accept this reality and adapt themselves to be in reach of more opportunities, or they can compete for the diminishing pool of good jobs outside of those skills and roll the dice.
Knowing the above, it's in our society's best interests to get more young people ready for tomorrow's job opportunities. The old guard's days of honest, blue-collar/tradeskill work supporting a family as an option for the majority are gone, dead, over, finished. Again, some of those good jobs will always remain, but it seems foolhardy to me to advocate that path as a virtuous or even viable one to aspire to when the writing is so clearly on the wall.
Yup, this accords with my cohort experience too. This is my 20 year high school reunion year.
There are some non-college success stories in the group but those people were already the types who had something a little more going for them. Fixing cars when they were in 10th grade already, stuff like that. They made it.
The AP kids who went to college are all working some white collar job now, with savings cushion, vacation, retirement plans. At least 3 of them are now teaching or coaching at the high we graduated from. Many of them did complain about student loans though. I've been seeing quite a few of them this past 2-3 years post about how they just their paid off loans. A big flurry of student debt free celebration posts this year. It's been about 10-15 years out of college for most of us. I was a bit faster in paying mine off, took about 4 years.
If they hadn't taken those loans they wouldn't be better off, they'd be worse.
The average kids who never went to college are working very average jobs, surviving but not really getting ahead. I was embarrassed when I went home one time, to find an old classmate who was my waitress for dinner. She never went to college.
Last edited by redguard57; 06-04-2021 at 11:59 AM..
My concern is not so much against a college degree as it is kids coming out with big huge debts with degrees in useless subjects. Sure, if there are still enough STEM jobs open and the student graduates with a useful degree, I totally agree. It is a big scam to have kids borrow for some college experience that does nothing to prepare them for a career.
Please post the data on what useless subjects are resulting in poverty. Not just anecdotes. I want to see DATA on major : income ratios and specifically the college degrees that only result in poverty wages.
Sadly, our educational system doesn't teach students about money management, budgeting, and other aspects of personal finance. The end result is as you describe - some people vastly overestimate the lifestyle that can be supported by even dual income.
There are many stories of pro-sports athletes who make extraordinary income during their productive years, only to end up in bankruptcy a few years down the road - usually the result of poor personal financial management (although sometimes as a result of having been taken advantage of). I recall the story of one bankrupt former NBA player who had dogs in his house, and he never bothered to house-train them; he just had all the carpeting replaced every 2 weeks.
Steph Curry of the Golden State Warriors, with an annual salary of $43 Million is rich.
Peter Guber & Joe Lacob, the men who signs Steph Curry's paycheck are wealthy.
This doesn't explain or even correlate with the statement that college-educated people mismanage money. To put it from a different perspective, if it's not taught, where are these trade skill and blue-collar workers picking it up? They went to the same high schools as these pro-sports athletes.
This doesn't explain or even correlate with the statement that college-educated people mismanage money. To put it from a different perspective, if it's not taught, where are these trade skill and blue-collar workers picking it up? They went to the same high schools as these pro-sports athletes.
Many people on C-D conflate middle class spending problems with poverty problems.
My experience is that poor people are very GOOD money managers. They can cite how much money they have to the cent at any given time.
Middle and upper middle class people who make enough they don't have to check their accounts all the time sometimes spend without thinking. They can get into trouble with credit cards, car loans, etc... That is NOT the same as poverty. That's just mis-management.
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