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The progressive tax system helps keep you down. What is so damn hard for you to understand
This just an example for illustration; not numbers I am suggesting are what the taxes should be. A very simple progressive tax with 3 levels. Lets say everything below 100k was untaxed, 100k to 1M at 30% and everything above 1M at 50%. So if my gross is 100k, I get 100k. If I make 200k, I get 170k. If I gross 2M, I "only" get 1.23M. If I "need" 1.5M after taxes, I am going to have to gross a little over 2.5M. For every dollar more I earn, my take home increases, so if I need more take home I have incentive to work more. If I am "down" the progressive tax is less of a burden. I think it would do the opposite of keeping me down. Simple scenarios like this are what make it so hard for me to understand. Unsupported statements and face palm emoticons are a poor substitute for logical explanations IMO.
EDIT - The crickets are chirping. You have posted a couple of replies below this but not bothered to reply to this. I can't blame you; explaining how this keeps someone down is a difficult assignment. Maybe impossible.
Last edited by ReachTheBeach; 07-13-2015 at 12:42 PM..
It is political suicide for anyone to suggest it but that does get at the problem better. The problem is that we allowed the wealth to get concentrated potentially past the point of no return and the people who have it would justifiably feel like they were being robbed if we took a big chunk of it to try to fix the system. I totally get how competition and incentive and all the wonderful things about capitalism works. I don't understand how anyone can say that having the majority of the wealth end up in the hands of less than 1% of the population is a good thing. Ideologies aside, it scares me to think how this might get corrected if we don't take steps to correct it within the system.
Along time ago when I was poor I asked my rich uncle, "how much is enough"? He replied, "you don't understand, it's I know how". In other words the poor and the middle class don't know how to make and if they make it they don't know how to keep money and make it work for them. Most will never learn because they listen to the wrong people who are not interested in teaching you how, they're more interested in you believing their lies. Most will never learn because even if someone tries to teach and help them, they are so wedge into "life isn't fair", "it's someone else's fault", mentality their minds couldn't be pried open to hear and certainly wouldn't do what is needed because it's those people who tend to be "the know it alls".
I've learned first hand through my upbringing and moving from poverty into "some" wealth. ... I've learned first hand from being around the poor, the middle class and the well off, the differences in how they think and what they do. In fact, I'll never stop learning. People think just because they are out of school they are done learning, they are very wrong. The rich think very different from the middle class and poor.
I also learned that rich people "are" interested and want to help people who want to learn but they don't believe in helping people who already know it all. You already know everything why do you need them.
They don't believe in just handing you money. They believe you'll be no better off not because you got a handout but because you won't use the money in a way that won't teach you to build your own wealth.
I think something akin to the Nordic model of social democracy (an actual working model, not a theory) might support this. I say "might" because you are right about human nature. Some people question whether the Nordic countries would be as successful if they were more diverse and as much as I hate the idea that they might be right, they might be. The diversity argument is that the Nordic people are pretty homogenous and the people who are working and paying high taxes to support those out of work don't mind because they identify with those in need; they very well might be distant cousins.
I'm of the opinion that the Nordic model is dependent on homogeneity. Social democracy is much trickier if you have various political groups competing for resources as opposed to essentially one group. You also raise a great point about the importance of identifying with the recipients of benefits. Without that identification and commonality, you end up with a resentment against "outside groups".
Interestingly, many of the so-called far-right political parties in Europe have economic policies that are very leftist. My theory is because of the emphasis on in-group solidarity.
EDIT - The crickets are chirping. You have posted a couple of replies below this but not bothered to reply to this. I can't blame you; explaining how this keeps someone down is a difficult assignment. Maybe impossible.
LOL, you ASSume I didn't respond... you are so FULL of yourself. Could it be... drum roll.... I was being productive, out helping out an elderly woman and just got back. you ASSume.
Stop being an ASS!
Taking more off someone who is working overtime trying to get ahead is not helping them. Take more from someone who took on school debt so they could go to college so they could make more money is not helping them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is so wedge in, closed minded that they aren't worth debating.... ReachTheBeach
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReachTheBeach
This just an example for illustration; not numbers I am suggesting are what the taxes should be. A very simple progressive tax with 3 levels. Lets say everything below 100k was untaxed, 100k to 1M at 30% and everything above 1M at 50%. So if my gross is 100k, I get 100k. If I make 200k, I get 170k. If I gross 2M, I "only" get 1.23M. If I "need" 1.5M after taxes, I am going to have to gross a little over 2.5M. For every dollar more I earn, my take home increases, so if I need more take home I have incentive to work more. If I am "down" the progressive tax is less of a burden. I think it would do the opposite of keeping me down. Simple scenarios like this are what make it so hard for me to understand. Unsupported statements and face palm emoticons are a poor substitute for logical explanations IMO.
The more you make the more the government takes.
Think about that when any of you go to college so you can make more money. Marry someone of equal pay, you'll love the marriage penalty, combined, it may knock you into the next higher tax bracket and the government wants more of your money while they coddle people who didn't do anything for themselves.
The "progressive" tax system DOES hurt people who did what it takes to improve their skills so they can make more money. You're sold on some people not paying anything while others pick up the slack. You won't sell me on that 'UNFAIR" system PERIOD.
Tell the people expecting a handout to make their own way. If they want better, then do what it takes to better themselves. Stop expecting other people to pay for their mistakes in life.
LOL, you ASSume I didn't respond and are so FULL of yourself. Could it be... drum roll.... I was being productive, out helping out an elderly woman and just got back. you ASSume.
Stop being an ASS!
The more you make the more the government takes.
Think about that when any of you go to college so you can make more money. Marry someone of equal pay, you'll love the marriage penalty, combined, it may knock you into the next higher tax bracket and the government wants more of your money while they coddle people who didn't do anything for themselves.
The "progressive" tax system not hurting people who did what it takes to improve their skills so they can make more money. You're sold on some people not paying anything while others pick up the slack. You won't sell me on that 'UNFAIR" system PERIOD.
Tell the people expecting a handout to make their own way. If they want better, then do what it takes to better themselves. Stop expecting other people to pay for their mistakes in life.
So no explanation, just more name calling and misdirection. I tell you that it is just an example of progressive tax and not what I am actually suggesting and you reply saying that the bottom bracket is unfair. I am glad you are helping someone. Since you posted two replies after I posted that, I did assume that you were avoiding the direct question. Now that you have come back and NOT answered the question I still think you are avoiding it.
The more you make the more the government takes. Now how in the hell is the middle class supposed to have extra money to put aside to build their own wealth if greedy people and greedy government keeps wanting to take more?
I challenge anyone to work as much overtime as you can, increase your income as much as possible, then take a look at what they take from you. If you're low income, I challenge you to work and make a lot more, lets see what subsidy the government takes away from you.
I'll bet there are a lot of middle class people paying full freight while people on welfare or low income get subsidies. Yea, that's what Beach advocates. More of it. Now go to work, welfare queen needs your money.
So no explanation, just more name calling and misdirection. I tell you that it is just an example of progressive tax and not what I am actually suggesting and you reply saying that the bottom bracket is unfair. I am glad you are helping someone. Since you posted two replies after I posted that, I did assume that you were avoiding the direct question. Now that you have come back and NOT answered the question I still think you are avoiding it.
Yes you ASSumed just like other ASSumptions you are making.
No explanation? no, not an explanation you want to hear. As I said before, you are not interested in "debate", you're convinced you know the answer, you're only interest is to sell people on taking what is not theirs to take. Or should I say you're only interested in shoving a lie, a poor idea, social democracy (socialism) up people's ****.
So that is what Obama meant by "shovel ready jobs". Yea, he got tons of money but it was just another WASTE.
No one owes anyone anything simply because they exist. It is out of the kindness of heart that people choose to give. Forcing people is a whole different issue.
The rich are "already rich", they don't depend on income and can control the type of income unlike the middle class who are dependent on income. Try getting a higher paying job, a job so you have money left over to start building your own wealth and tell me what happens after you figure out how much you owe the government.
If you think that the "already rich" depend on "income" you don't have a clue how it works. The rich are "ALREADY" rich, they don't need their income to build wealth like the middle class needs more income above their expenses to build wealth. The problem is if a middle class person increases their income the government takes more / a higher percentage for some.
The progressive tax system helps keep you down. What is so damn hard for you to understand
Way to dodge. You said increasing tax on the upper brackets causes the sky to fall down. History teaches us doesn't, does it fix everything of course not, but high top rate tax = better wealth distribution then low taxes. Guess what? You could even drop the middle tax % and maintain the same $ spend.
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