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This forum is regarding Georgia. Please keep posts specific to Georgia. To compare and contrast Georgia with other states I can move this thread to the appropriate forum.
I should also add that (in addition to Atlanta's berth as host of the 1996 Summer Olympics) Atlanta's very large airport (which has now grown into the world's largest airport), Atlanta's long-held status as a major multimodal crossroads for the Southeastern U.S. and Southeastern North America, and Atlanta's mushrooming entertainment scene from the 1990's on, likely have played key roles in helping Georgia to generate the growth it needed to overtake North Carolina in population during the decade 1990's and stay ahead of North Carolina after 2000.
Charlotte also has a very large airport as well (something which has helped that city to become the financial capital of the Southeastern U.S.), but Charlotte (despite being the largest city in NC) has long had to compete much more closely with other sizeable metro areas in its own state like the Triangle (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill) and even the Triad (Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point).
That is unlike Atlanta, which has long been the focus city in Georgia, even long before the increasingly explosive boom times of the post-World War II era.
In any case, both Georgia and North Carolina are great Southeastern/Sunbelt states that very understandably will continue to attract large numbers of newcomers.
Good points but one major difference that helps to account for the population difference between NC and GA is the fact that Charlotte's metro spills over into SC which has benefitted in terms of job (with several companies relocating from Charlotte to the other side of the state line and expanding) and population growth over the years. This is different from GA, where metro Atlanta is completely within GA. Augusta and Columbus aren't really growing all that fast and haven't lost anything to their suburbs across the state line that would spur rapid growth, and the same goes for Chattanooga and its GA suburbs.
This forum is regarding Georgia. Please keep posts specific to Georgia. To compare and contrast Georgia with other states I can move this thread to the appropriate forum.
I am very sorry and do apologize if we go off-topic here when other states come up in the conversation about Georgia's population growth.
But Georgia and North Carolina in particular have a longstanding regional civic rivalry that has often in the past tended to come up almost whenever the subject of Georgia's population and economy are discussed.
The regional civic rivalry between GA and NC has not necessarily come up as much during the economic boom period of the late 2010's in Georgia, largely because of how the stunning rise of Atlanta's and Georgia's extremely robust Television and Film Production industry seems to have helped Georgia gain some meaningful (but even if only modest) separation from North Carolina both population-wise and economically.
But the GA-NC civic rivalry (and most notably, the Atlanta-Charlotte civic rivalry) got mentioned much more before Atlanta's impressive recovery from the Great Recession economic downturn of the late 2000's and early 2010's.
Charlotte and North Carolina are subjects that have tended to keep Atlanta and Georgia boosters up at night in the past because of how North Carolina's banking industry took over much of Georgia's banking industry and because of how Charlotte completely overtook Atlanta as the Financial Capital of the Southeast back in the 1980's and 1990's.
Back before the 1980's, Atlanta was widely considered by many to be the Financial Capital of the Southeast. But looser banking laws in North Carolina allowed major banks in that state at the time (like North Carolina National Bank, Wachovia, First Union, BB&T, etc) to do more business (most notably in the form of mergers and acquisitions) outside of the state of NC than Georgia banks were allowed do outside of the state of GA.
By the time that the Georgia Legislature loosened the state banking laws to allow Georgia banks to do much more business outside of the state of Georgia, it was too late. North Carolina's biggest banks were already well on their way to completely swallowing up and devouring some of Georgia's largest banks.
The Atlanta-based bank now known as SunTrust (originally known as Trust Company of Georgia before the merger with Florida-based SunBanks in 1985) was basically the only major Atlanta/Georgia-based bank to survive North Carolina's takeover of Georgia's banking industry in the 1980's and '90's.
Though as of the late 2010's, the banking industry has had so many mergers and acquisitions that one pretty much cannot tell that two big banks with very heavy concentrations of operations in the Southeast like Bank of America and Wells Fargo (two massive banks whose East Coast operations are headquartered in Charlotte) used to be numerous smaller North Carolina and Georgia banks.
For many longtime Atlanta and Georgia boosters, one of the biggest symbols of North Carolina's hostile takeover of Georgia's banking industry is the 820-foot high, 50-story Bank of America Plaza tower in Midtown Atlanta.
The tower (which opened in 1992) was originally planned to be constructed as the headquarters for Atlanta-based C&S Bank (Citizens & Southern National Bank).
But C&S Bank (which had merged with Norfolk, Virginia-based Sovran Bank in 1990 in hopes of fending off a hostile takeover by the then-very aggressively fast-growing and ascendant NCNB (North Carolina National Bank)) was taken over by NCNB in 1991 and merged into a larger bank that operated under the banner of NationsBank.
So the skyscraper that was intended to be the headquarters for C&S Bank ended up opening and operating as "NationsBank Plaza" for the first several years of its existence.
Charlotte-based NationsBank later acquired San Francisco-based BankAmerica to become the Charlotte-based Bank of America which changed the name of the Midtown Atlanta tower from "NationsBank Plaza" to "Bank of America Plaza" in 1998.
Also, before Georgia overtook North Carolina in population in the 1990's and economic output in the early 21st Century, North Carolinians used to talk a lot of trash to Georgians about how (even though Atlanta was a very fast-growing and ascendant metro area that was regarded by many as being the Capital of the New South) North Carolina still had the larger population and larger economy.
Because both Georgia and North Carolina are two highly-competitive Southeastern states that are very similar to each other in size and geography that have also tracked very closely to each other in overall population and economic output, there has always been a notable degree of regional civic rivalry and competition between the two states.
Because of how Charlotte completely overtook Atlanta as the Financial Capital of the Southeast back in the 1980's and 1990's, because of how North Carolina's banking industry took over much of Georgia's banking industry during the same time frame, because of how very closely the two states have tracked to each other economically and demographically in the past, and because of how similar in geography and topography the two states are to each other, it is in Atlantans' and Georgians' DNA to always be somewhat keenly aware of what their neighbors and regional civic and economic rivals in North Carolina are up to.
It also gives Atlantans and Georgians much civic pride that Georgia has passed North Carolina in population and economic output.
It also gives Atlantans and Georgians much civic pride that Atlanta's entertainment industry and sporting scene has given Atlanta a much higher national and international profile than an intense economic competitor like Charlotte.
And it gives Atlantans and Georgians much joy that a city/metro like Charlotte (that just simply ate Atlanta's breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert and in-between snacks during Charlotte's and North Carolina's hostile takeover of Atlanta's and Georgia's banking industry in the 1980's and 1990's) now has to watch its back to see an in-state rival city like Raleigh and an in-state rival metro like the Research Triangle continue to gain on it in the rearview mirror.
It gives Atlantans like myself much joy to see how Raleigh has been giving Charlotte the fits in a way that is similar to how Charlotte has given Atlanta the fits over the years and decades.
With that said, we will do our level best to keep this thread on the topic of Georgia. But onlookers have to understand how the history of intense civic and economic competition between the two states of GA and NC will very often work their way into topics of population and economic growth in Georgia.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 12-22-2018 at 01:31 PM..
Actually, Atlanta's as the de facto location for companies covering the Southeast is dwindling.
I see this as a great thing, though.
Sure it means we lose out on some corporate locations and there is some rivalry, but by and large we are still a large, quick growing city.
We are also the most central to other up and coming regional cities in the Southeast and the Southeast as a whole isn't quiet of a region as it use to be.
So we might not be the only game in town, but we are still the centralized 'capitol of the South' and we receive a good bit of top-line growth, while some things are pushed out to cheaper locations in Upstate South Carolina, Nashville, North Carolina, etc...
Good points but one major difference that helps to account for the population difference between NC and GA is the fact that Charlotte's metro spills over into SC which has benefitted in terms of job (with several companies relocating from Charlotte to the other side of the state line and expanding) and population growth over the years. This is different from GA, where metro Atlanta is completely within GA. Augusta and Columbus aren't really growing all that fast and haven't lost anything to their suburbs across the state line that would spur rapid growth, and the same goes for Chattanooga and its GA suburbs.
I did a quick perusal of CSA populations, the combined total of Augusta and Columbus in SC and AL respecitvely is about the same as the Charlotte CSA into SC, about 385k for Columbus and Augusta combined, about 390k for Charlotte. So would be a figure that would seem to cancel each other out when comparing the two states.
Granted, using CSA numbers helps the Georgia total as you add Lee and Chambers Counties into the total whereas there is no CSA addition into neighboring states when you go from MSA to CSA for the other two. Charlotte adds only NC counties and there is no CSA for Augusta.
I did a quick perusal of CSA populations, the combined total of Augusta and Columbus in SC and AL respecitvely is about the same as the Charlotte CSA into SC, about 385k for Columbus and Augusta combined, about 390k for Charlotte. So would be a figure that would seem to cancel each other out when comparing the two states.
Granted, using CSA numbers helps the Georgia total as you add Lee and Chambers Counties into the total whereas there is no CSA addition into neighboring states when you go from MSA to CSA for the other two. Charlotte adds only NC counties and there is no CSA for Augusta.
The difference though is that the population and economic growth of the SC suburbs of Charlotte, particularly Fort Mill and Indian Land, are directly attributable to their proximity to Charlotte, a fast-growing metro just on the NC side alone. Over the years, a slew of corporate HQs have moved from Charlotte to SC (and a few that were looking to locate to the metro area went straight to the SC 'burbs) and that has resulted in rapid growth in those communities and this sort of dynamic is wholly absent in metro Augusta and Columbus. Just this week, it was announced that a mortgage servicing company is moving from Charlotte to Indian Land, SC with plans to create 1000 new jobs over the next five years, and these sorts of announcements have been made a couple of times a year for the past several years. Had Charlotte been located more inland, you'd see NC capturing nearly all of metro Charlotte's growth and the NC and GA populations would probably be even closer, or NC would have retained its lead, as a result.
The difference though is that the population and economic growth of the SC suburbs of Charlotte, particularly Fort Mill and Indian Land, are directly attributable to their proximity to Charlotte, a fast-growing metro just on the NC side alone. Over the years, a slew of corporate HQs have moved from Charlotte to SC (and a few that were looking to locate to the metro area went straight to the SC 'burbs) and that has resulted in rapid growth in those communities and this sort of dynamic is wholly absent in metro Augusta and Columbus. Just this week, it was announced that a mortgage servicing company is moving from Charlotte to Indian Land, SC with plans to create 1000 new jobs over the next five years, and these sorts of announcements have been made a couple of times a year for the past several years. Had Charlotte been located more inland, you'd see NC capturing nearly all of metro Charlotte's growth and the NC and GA populations would probably be even closer, or NC would have retained its lead, as a result.
Just a quick look and rounding numbers, but looks like between York and Lancaster Counties, Charlotte's two main growth counties in SC, was a gain of about 52K since 2010. Lee and Russell Counties in Alabama and Aiken County in SC gained altogether about 33k. Three other counties (one each for each metro in the neighboring state) were relatively stagnant. So about a 19k difference.
This does not include South Carolina counties near Savannah as the Census Bureau has mysteriously decided that Savannah and Beaufort/Hilton Head are not a MSA or even a CSA. Add the gains in Beaufort and Jasper County SC -- 28k since 2010, and counties in adjacent states to Georgia's 3 main second tier cities and you have a bigger gain than the SC counties adjacent to Charlotte.
So I still would say it is a draw.
Last edited by Saintmarks; 12-22-2018 at 04:12 PM..
Just a quick look and rounding numbers, but looks like between York and Lancaster Counties, Charlotte's two main growth counties in SC, was a gain of about 52K since 2010. Lee and Russell Counties in Alabama and Aiken County in SC gained altogether about 33k. Three other counties (one each for each metro in the neighboring state) were relatively stagnant. So about a 19k difference.
This does not include South Carolina counties near Savannah as the Census Bureau has mysteriously decided that Savannah and Beaufort/Hilton Head are not a MSA or even a CSA. Add the gains in Beaufort and Jasper County SC -- 28k since 2010, and counties in adjacent states to Georgia's 3 main second tier cities and you have a bigger gain than the SC counties adjacent to Charlotte.
So I still would say it is a draw.
Beaufort and Jasper counties don't count as they are not in the Savannah MSA. It's not a mystery as to why they aren't: there isn't a big enough chunk of the workforce in those counties traveling across the river into GA for work. Hilton Head/Beaufort's growth is largely driven by retirees and the military, so it makes perfect sense as to why it's not in the same metro as Savannah.
Also, the GMP for the SC side of metro Charlotte is about $15B, while the GMP for the AL suburbs of Columbus and the SC suburbs of Augusta are about $8B combined, which would give NC about $7B more in GMP if all of metro Charlotte were in NC.
All this talk comparing NC to GA. Yes they are similar geographically, but very different population wise. Georgia is similar to Illinois. One large city, multiple smaller cities and lots of agriculture downstate. NC is more similar to Florida. Half of FL's population, but a spread over multiple large metros. Both Miami and Charlotte, while large, don't completely dominate their state economies the way Atlanta and Chicago do.
All this talk comparing NC to GA. Yes they are similar geographically, but very different population wise. Georgia is similar to Illinois. One large city, multiple smaller cities and lots of agriculture downstate. NC is more similar to Florida. Half of FL's population, but a spread over multiple large metros. Both Miami and Charlotte, while large, don't completely dominate their state economies the way Atlanta and Chicago do.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! I have some time before the festivities begin, so thought I'd chime in.
I find this to be a very accurate assessment, and I never thought of these states in this way before now, so thanks for the enlightenment.
We just left GA after 20 years there, and returned to Florida. I lived in Illinois (not Chicago), and I've had business in NC for 20+ years, so an very familiar with all 4 States mentioned.
Atlanta does dominate the rest of the state in population, commerce, and in Government policy. Here's a fun saying about Georgia...
in Atlanta they ask "what's your business?"
in Augusta they ask "who's your Grandparents?"
in Macon they ask "which church do you go to?"
and in Savannah, they ask "what are your drinking?"
Atlanta underwent great growth in our 20 years there. It's a beautiful place with so many trees, that some call it "the city in the forest". Most people there are friendly, say hello to each other or at least smile and nod, as the Southern hospitality seems to have transferred onto the newcomers arriving from out of State. Georgians plant a lot of flowers, so each Spring is amazingly colorful. Many homes are tastefully decorated, much like the Carolina's. It's easy to see why so many people are moving to Georgia. Savannah is Georgia's crown jewel IMHO, not to live, but to visit...utterly enchanting.
Georgia will always be on our minds. UGA, GA Tech, the Falcons, Braves (their new Spring training facility is 5 minutes from us), and all of its green lush beauty. I miss hearing Southern accents, and the word y'all.
Embrace Georgia, and welcome all the newcomers with a kind and open heart. Bring a pie or dish over to them as they are moving into Atlanta, but if you are in Savannah, maybe a bottle of wine would be best
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