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Im afraid youre missing the point. The migration from Rust Belt to Sun Belt is much larger in scope than that.
I know about the migration, but not all Rust Belt metros are the same. Another example from my metro is that the 3 county population is at an all time high. Rochester may have lost metro population in one census. So, not every Rust Belt metro is losing people.
Preface - grew up in Lima, Ohio (a city of about 40,000 on I-75, classic rust belt town / city) about an hour south of Toledo.
Spent 18 years in Lima, 4.5 living in Toledo (another classic rust belt city) and then moved home for another year back to Lima. Have lived in Greenville, South Carolina for 8 years now.
Pro's of the rust belt - geographically you know where you're going. Northwest Ohio is nothing but a giant grid pattern so there is absolutely no way you can get lost unless you try and even then it's tough. School districts focused on one small town or one city as opposed to covering a several communities in most cases. Local control meant greater decision making for the community. Fall's in Ohio are absolutely gorgeous. My favorite time of year in Ohio has been and always will be the fall. Small towns are safe and great places to raise families in the midwest.
Con's of the rust belt - employment opportunities can make you a little depressed. chances for advancement once you get a job depending on the industry can be just as depressing. WINTER's can be brutal in NW Ohio where it's all flat land. School districts are losing money or are not being run efficiently some might say due to too many of them existing. Consolidate and move on already.
Pro's of the Sun Belt (I live in South Carolina) - tons of employment opportunity for me at least being in the education industry. I kind of enjoy living in a state that has a very mild winter weather wise. October and November down here are pretty good. Metro South can be a boooming place with all the young midwest and mid atlantic college grads moving down here probably due to the cons of the midwest haha. Way more chances at recreation down here. I'm big into hiking so with dozens of state hiking parks within a minutes time from me has been great.
Con's of the Sun Belt - poor urban and metro area planning. road systems in the south in general are very screwy to begin with. add in thousands of new transplants a year and it gets ridiculous. Housing costs are inflated. A nice middle class home down here can cost up to 250,000 while that same home back in my hometown would sell for half that at best. Poorly funded public services (as a teacher you know i'm talking about schools haha). small towns in the south are usually the most crime infested. usually the most dangerous cities in south carolina each year are the small ones as you get closer to the
coast. i would NEVER raise a family in a small southern town. some are nice but the vast
majority you're better off driving around or through really fast.
Pretty much NW Ohio versus Upstate SC. I totally know what you mean about some small Southern towns being rough. For instance, my mother's hometown in the Pee Dee Region of SC with 5000 people has a crime rate on par with Syracuse, according to this website and it may be higher actually. https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Carolina.html
Im afraid youre missing the point. The migration from Rust Belt to Sun Belt is much larger in scope than that.
Yes, but it's overstated. First, the sun-belt gets a higher share of immigrants than the rust belt. Second, in most rust-belt states the population isn't declining, it's just not growing as rapidly as the sun belt.
Also, it's important to note that cities in the South which did face the same sort of "territorial limits" as Northern cities - New Orleans, Atlanta, Richmond, and Norfolk, to name a few - have had pretty lackluster growth. Atlanta might have a hoppin MSA, it still has 65,000 less people in the city limits than in 1970.
Pretty much NW Ohio versus Upstate SC. I totally know what you mean about some small Southern towns being rough. For instance, my mother's hometown in the Pee Dee Region of SC with 5000 people has a crime rate on par with Syracuse, according to this website and it may be higher actually. https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Carolina.html
While SC is hardly crime-free, I always take comparisons of crime stats in SC to other areas with a grain of salt because SC tends to be more thorough in reporting its stats than other places.
yeah, I agree, u can't really count Chicago in that catergory.
Depends on how you define Rust Belt. When the term was coined in the 1970s, it referred to the region of the country that was the most heavily manufacturing based. It stretched from approximately Sheboygan WI/Rockford, IL across the southern shores of the Great Lakes thru Chicago, Gary, Toledo, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Schenectady, and countless smaller manufacturing towns in between. Up until the end of the 70s, Chicago was highly industrialized, with steel mills, foundries and light and heavy manufacturing within the city limits as well as many industrial suburbs, mostly on the South and West Sides. Take any Metra commuter train out of the Loop and look out the window. You'll see abandoned and sometimes repurposed industrial plants all along the tracks. Today? Chi's diversified economy is doing pretty well, but is much less dependent on manufacturing. So if you believe that Rust Belt cities that have successfully transformed their economies are no longer "in" the Rust Belt, Chicago is arguably no longer "in" it. But I think its location plus its economic heritage means it is still a Rust Belt city.
I choose the "rust belt," but not for the cities. I like the non-rusty parts of the rust belt. You know... the rural areas. Not to mention the Great Lakes shoreline, forests, etc.
If you're going by land area, only a very small percentage of the Rust Belt actually fits the stereotype of factories and industrial areas. It's not mile after mile of factory and grungy urban areas. You can drive for hours here and see nothing but farms and forest.
The Sun Belt, on the other hand, has the benefit of having a name with positive connotations. Everybody loves sunshine!
If we called it the "Drought Belt" or the "Dust Belt" or the "Oppressive Heat Belt" it wouldn't sound nearly as appealing.
Change the name of the "Rust Belt" to the "Lakes, Farms and Forest Belt" and it sounds a lot nicer, while still being accurate.
So so true! We are not all cities. I love taking a 10 minute drive outside of my quaint and tree lined city. There I find something else. We have lakes, mountains and fresh air.
For example tonight, it is breezy and in the high 60s.
We have sun also. Do not confuse us with the Pacific North West.
And waterfalls, and green grass, and flowers and four glorious seasons!
Not sure that I could do Halloween with Palm Trees or Christmas with Cactus. Sounds like an abomination of sorts.
Rust Belt is not the best name...unless you add "Rust" to the glories or gold, crimson and amber of our beautiful Autumn display.
Maybe the "Golden Green Friendly Normal America" Belt?
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around
Depends on how you define Rust Belt. When the term was coined in the 1970s, it referred to the region of the country that was the most heavily manufacturing based. It stretched from approximately Sheboygan WI/Rockford, IL across the southern shores of the Great Lakes thru Chicago, Gary, Toledo, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Schenectady, and countless smaller manufacturing towns in between. Up until the end of the 70s, Chicago was highly industrialized, with steel mills, foundries and light and heavy manufacturing within the city limits as well as many industrial suburbs, mostly on the South and West Sides. Take any Metra commuter train out of the Loop and look out the window. You'll see abandoned and sometimes repurposed industrial plants all along the tracks. Today? Chi's diversified economy is doing pretty well, but is much less dependent on manufacturing. So if you believe that Rust Belt cities that have successfully transformed their economies are no longer "in" the Rust Belt, Chicago is arguably no longer "in" it. But I think its location plus its economic heritage means it is still a Rust Belt city.
Many would count Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis part of the rust belt, and rightfully so IMO. Even to this day, steel mills are still actively operated around St. Louis across the river in Illinois and also on the Missouri side near the river.
The Sun Belt is nice but the political climate there is so cutthroat. There is no "live and let live," just Democrats and Republicans locked in deadly struggle. Certain parts of the Rust Belt are like that too (say, in Ohio), but for the most part, the Rust Belt is a lot more politically relaxed. No one is "in your face" about politics there, or, if that does happen, it's only during presidential election years.
I find the hyper-combative political cultures of the Sun Belt (and the South in general, even in the "liberal" areas) to be a total turnoff. Nothing like being caught in the middle of conservatives AND liberals who strut around being loud and inflexible.
Politicians in the Rust Belt (particularly in NY) are all about cheating and swindling, not so much about ideology.
The Sun Belt is nice but the political climate there is so cutthroat. There is no "live and let live," just Democrats and Republicans locked in deadly struggle. Certain parts of the Rust Belt are like that too (say, in Ohio), but for the most part, the Rust Belt is a lot more politically relaxed. No one is "in your face" about politics there, or, if that does happen, it's only during presidential election years.
I find the hyper-combative political cultures of the Sun Belt (and the South in general, even in the "liberal" areas) to be a total turnoff. Nothing like being caught in the middle of conservatives AND liberals who strut around being loud and inflexible.
Politicians in the Rust Belt (particularly in NY) are all about cheating and swindling, not so much about ideology.
True and I'd rather have the cheaters and swindlers, who are quieter about what they're doing (till they get caught) versus the ideological crazies. They're scarier to me personally. In Arizona, they're almost certifiably crazy. The people there likes that stuff. The lack of intelligence or throughtful dialogue is obvious, to me it was, but only mirrors the majority of the population who are drawn to live there. Like attracts like. Ouch.
Politicians in the Rust Belt (particularly in NY) are all about cheating and swindling, not so much about ideology.
I would rather have politicians who are hung up on ideology. Politicians are supposed to be passionate, loud, annoying, and constantly fighting with each other. It has been that way since the beginning of time.
I'm not sure where this notion comes from that political gridlock is something new and terrible. It is not new.
If politicians so busy stealing my tax dollars that they don't care about issues.... that is NOT a good thing.
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