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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,368,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltchan
And we need millions of people learn more about the benefits of owning a "S". They are being brainwashed in believing Toyota and Honda are still he best, but carcomplaints.com say otherwise. Trend is changing now.
Simply saying Ford is better simply because new generation Toyotas and Hondas have more problems than previous generations is silly unless the Fords are shown to have less problems than the new generation Toyotas and Hondas.
And in general, how does carcomplaints collect their data? Simply complaints from owners or documented problems? Because I know from experience a large number of alleged 'problems' are created by owners too damn lazy to RTFM (Read The Friggin' Manual).
I thought Ford was dumping all of its 'cars' (except for the mustang) in favor of SUVs and trucks? Did this change?
They're also keeping the GT supercar and a couple of Lincoln sedans. Ford has said they're going to discontinue the Fusion, but it's currently in production and is expected to be until next year. I believe 2021 is going to be the final model year. The Fiesta, Focus and Taurus have already ceased production.
Simply saying Ford is better simply because new generation Toyotas and Hondas have more problems than previous generations is silly unless the Fords are shown to have less problems than the new generation Toyotas and Hondas.
And in general, how does carcomplaints collect their data? Simply complaints from owners or documented problems? Because I know from experience a large number of alleged 'problems' are created by owners too damn lazy to RTFM (Read The Friggin' Manual).
I agree that having people sign up and report issues is not the best way to collect data. First of all, it's not a random sample, and secondly, how do they prevent people from rigging the data with this operation? Can someone just set up 10 usernames and report 30 fictional problems?
I see that many of the graphs are not (remotely) smooth, which isn't comforting. You'd expect good data to show some clear trends across time, not look random.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 08-17-2019 at 08:50 AM..
I own a 2012 Ford Fusion SEL that has the 2.5L engine.
So far it has been perfect. The only failures were both tail lamps.
It has enough power and it rides nice, handles well and has very comfortable seats.
It's a keeper.
What's your average MPG after all the years? 2.5L I4 engine used to be found in all Fusion trims, but it's now down to base S only for 2019 model year. SE used to have it as an optional $650 credit from MSRP (special-order only) until 2018. Not a bad run...
Would you say it's more durable than Toyota or Honda? That's what some picky drivers like to know. We need more actual scientific data on 2.5L here, despite it's hard to find info about it on Google search. It may be... Which means, they have not broken down yet.
Simply saying Ford is better simply because new generation Toyotas and Hondas have more problems than previous generations is silly unless the Fords are shown to have less problems than the new generation Toyotas and Hondas.
I'm not saying that all Ford models are better than Toyota and Honda. I only "cherry-picked" two specific Ford models/trims only, Fusion S and Escape S, that have shown potential to be more-reliable than Toyota and Honda right now, in addition to saving up to $7,000 off price. It's a great, reliable buy, I think, considering sedan prices have now hit a record-low, thanks to shrinking demand of sedans to SUVs.
But this 2.5L I4 won't be around much longer. Knowing Ford well enough and their dirty secrets, they have been very unfriendly in helping buyers looking for reliability only, with usually only limited amount of inventory available to choose, while rejecting orders that were not placed on time during short model year timeframe.
Ford also declined my urgent request after I sent a message to them demanding that the current Escape S production to be extended, and called as "Escape Classic S" for 2020 and 2021 model year to satisfy fleets. The all-new, redesigned 2020 Escape will be switching to a new standard 1.5L 3-cylinder Ecoboost turbo (yes, 3-cylinder) with unknown reliability, and definitely won't be as good as 2.5L I4.
Ford's #1 goal is to sell a lot of parts when the vehicles break down after 10 years old, and they know the 2.5L I4 is too darn reliable to make any profit for it, so they discontinue it soon. 5.4L 3-Valve V8 engine (found in F-150 and Expedition) is currently Ford's most-profitable engine with lots of parts to sell for auto mechanics. But not reliable at all. Similar to 3.7L V6 situation when it ended in Lincoln vehicles in 2018, now all new Lincoln vehicles have Ecoboost turbo.
What's your average MPG after all the years? 2.5L I4 engine used to be found in all Fusion trims, but it's now down to base S only for 2019 model year. SE used to have it as an optional $650 credit from MSRP (special-order only) until 2018. Not a bad run...
Would you say it's more durable than Toyota or Honda? That's what some picky drivers like to know. We need more actual scientific data on 2.5L here, despite it's hard to find info about it on Google search. It may be... Which means, they have not broken down yet.
I get an average 23 mpg in daily driving. On the interstate it gets about 35 mpg.
More durable? Beats me. My sample of one car has had no failures yet at 67K miles.
More durable? Beats me. My sample of one car has had no failures yet at 67K miles.
It could be... We'll have to wait another 10 years down the road, and check back at carcomplaints.com for final results. Shows really promising and easily predictable... while Toyota and Honda are showing cracks in long-term durability (and your extra $7,000 higher price you spent is all for nothing) .
When Toyota released AZ engine in 2001, they chose not to evolve from the older, bulletproof S engine, and redesigned it completely from ground-up for all-new 2002 Camry. That's where trouble starts quickly, and it loses its durability image and old-school Japanese tank-like feel. Mazda was able to evolve and keep its old school, Japanese tank-like feel, and so carcomplaints.com confirmed the fewer problems than Toyota or Honda.
Simply saying Ford is better simply because new generation Toyotas and Hondas have more problems than previous generations is silly unless the Fords are shown to have less problems than the new generation Toyotas and Hondas.
And in general, how does carcomplaints collect their data? Simply complaints from owners or documented problems? Because I know from experience a large number of alleged 'problems' are created by owners too damn lazy to RTFM (Read The Friggin' Manual).
Reading the manual. What a great point. Ford may very well have a great product but I disagree with Toyota's newest generations having problems. I own a 2004 and a 2015 Corolla. Both of which are excellent cars the 2004 is approaching 240,000 miles (with original clutch). I have written two articles, (Toyota review) and (sludge mystery) which can be found in the Toyota section of City-Data. These two articles give a pretty objective report on long term ownership of my 3 past Toyota each of which having over 200,000 trouble free miles before being sold.
The point you have made about the owners manual sums it all up. Too many people simply do not follow the simple maintenance guideline set down by the manufacturer. If the manuals were read and the guidelines were followed most cars would retire at 250,000 plus miles with just recommended manufactures maintenance costs and nothing more.
An excellent photo of a brand new 2019.9 Ford Escape S 2.5L engine I found randomly. I wrote ".9" meaning that this stock # was built at its final-month production of 2019 model year on July 2019.
My general impression so far is it looks more bigger and "built like a tank" than I originally thought. What do you think?
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Trend is changing now.
Knowing Ford well enough and their dirty secrets, they have been very unfriendly in helping buyers looking for reliability only, with usually only limited amount of inventory available to choose, while rejecting orders that were not placed on time during short model year timeframe.
We'll have to wait another 10 years down the road, and check back at carcomplaints.com for final results. Shows really promising and easily predictable... 
while Toyota and Honda are showing cracks in long-term durability (and your extra $7,000 higher price you spent is all for nothing) 
Reading the manual. What a great point.
