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Remember that a $400K house in Flag if you've sold a $600K one in the Southland is no big deal. I'm sure (last in Flag in 2016) the city is actually being hit by Californicators who continue to "discover" it. That said, the "discovery" sometimes falls flat. Like in Silver City.
Flagstaff used to be a relaxed community of friends with a small university. Now it's a big traffic jam with tourist town prices. Quality of life is low because prices and traffic density are high. It's a shame because the natural environment of the area is incredibly beautiful and the town could have been a paradise for residents with some diligent leadership. Instead the city leaders have decided to make tourists and NAU the priorities at the expense of quality of life for residents. It's an ok place to visit, but if you move here be advised, it's like living in an amusement park; crowds of distracted strangers, high prices, roads full of lost tourists, terrible service at overpriced restaurants and the list goes on. It's a town without a soul and zero sense of community. It's a place designed to bring people in, quickly separate them from their money (resident,visitor and student) and move them on down the road. If you move here and are over the age of 30, be advised, it will be almost impossible to make true friends because the people you meet are planning on moving away soon or they expect that you won't live here long enough to bother getting to know you. Best advice regarding Flagstaff, bring lots of money and don't stay long.
I don't understand why everyone is always angry at Californians for moving in and purchasing high priced houses. After all, it's the locals who are selling these houses. They could control the market by not being greedy. Whose fault is it, really, that houses cost so much? Well, apparently, there are a lot of locals who are more than willing to destroy the towns they live in.
I don't understand why everyone is always angry at Californians for moving in and purchasing high priced houses. After all, it's the locals who are selling these houses. They could control the market by not being greedy. Whose fault is it, really, that houses cost so much? Well, apparently, there are a lot of locals who are more than willing to destroy the towns they live in.
Valid point, but not all the locals are selling out. But it is a negative feedback loop. As some do, the place changes and becomes more like California, and the quality of life declines, so there is more of an incentive to get out and more do. Rinse and repeat.
I talked to a local who raised the fact that NAU is being prioritized maybe more than it should be as well. At least NAU is a counter balance to retirees gobbling up the place. Places that don't have a big university like say Prescott will become/are becoming Sun City North. Flagstaff will somewhat but the younger people moving through will give the illusion that it is not.
As to Flagstaff being overpriced beyond housing and rental cost, it seems to me that it is about as expensive as anywhere else. The chains aren't inflated, groceries seem about the same as in Prescott say at least, I don't see there being a big uptick in the price of things again except housing.
Flagstaff should try more incentivising some of these young'ens that are blazing through to stay. Not sure how that would be done, and some do stay on their own, but there isn't a great economy in Flagstaff. Don't know the answer but getting the place to become attractive to a few more companies would go a long way. It is a nice place to live not withstanding the housing cost. I think Flagstaff does have enough going for it so that knowledge workers having a choice between say Phoenix of Flagstaff many would chose Flagstaff pretty much as it is. And the more that plant down the more the culture would build to lure more. Where this I don't think can happen in other areas of Arizona I think it could happen in Flagstaff. How to kick start that though I have no idea.
If or until that happens though, being single and living in Flagstaff in your 30ies and beyond might be tough. As another person posted Flagstaff seems like a largely transient place. But my experience though has been that people are pretty friendly especially if you start going to the same places and they start to recognize you. There is still despite the geopolitical changes taken place a core of a nice small town to build on. I hope it happens but it will be an uphill battle.
My brief, biting viewpoint about Prescott-Verde Valley-Flag. Tend to agree for most part about the negative threads about Flag and Sedona on the threads here as of late. I spent much time in both places returning to my home base in Verde Valley. Besides the general increase in retirement population relocating to Prescott/Prescott Valley, Sedona, Cottonwood and Flag, there is the ongoing escalation of home prices as boomers from exitville bring their pay cash hammers. Maybe rent a doublewide in Sedona Shadows with a lot fee so inflated it will make your teeth ache. Flag property shopping you better have a tenured professor's salary. There is more to life than 100 degree summers, eye problems from arid climate, and competing for parking spaces at Prescott Costco. Anyone who remembers Sedona from twenty years ago and is honest with themselves, knows Sedona is now a mess. Visit in the Winter if you must. Prescott once had a nice little bread/sandwich/soup place (Pangea Bakery) near the Courthouse Square. Of course it is gone now. The Prescott Mall is half vacant last time I was there. Maybe do breakfast at that chain Wildflower Bread. It's popular. The one in Flag is popular too. I could live without it though. IMO even as late as year 2000, I found Prescott/Prescott Valley, Sedona, Cottonwood and Flag not half bad places to make a life. Not so much anymore. I suspect the population increases, traffic, cost of living, water issues, etc. will become increasing bad to the point all these places will be not much different than all the other places with similar problems. What the h**l to do? Sometimes your life takes a turn and decides for you. Frail parents pushes me to move across the country to be near them. Do I like the burbs north of Atlanta? H**l no - it's a real s**thole with congestion up the ying yang. Take away the church vibe, the sports fixation, the government corruption, the broken transportation system, the southern pride thing..and what's left? Humidity, mold, red clay and undercurrent of racial animosity is what. Don't think I'll ever live to see Central or Northern AZ become the clusterf**k that burbs north of Atlanta are, but given enough time, we humans can accomplish it somehow. Not missing Flag's stench of Purina plant, sight of seedy flop motels, waiting for trains to clear or potholes. At least don't have to hear one more Sedona local raving about Elote Cafe. They really want to take their visiting LA friends there to prove to them that they don't live in the boonies entirely. Yeah, ok. Will miss proximity to Grand Canyon. Visiting GC at end of season was personal favorite. Goodbye turnabout tourist land, hello I had a dream sweet tea and grits land. America is changing not for the better in so many places. Do your research to find a place, move there and in ten years you're ready to move again. Welcome to the real new age (;
Last edited by trouillot; 01-24-2019 at 03:02 PM..
My brief, biting viewpoint about Prescott-Verde Valley-Flag. Tend to agree for most part about the negative threads about Flag and Sedona on the threads here as of late. I spent much time in both places returning to my home base in Verde Valley. Besides the general increase in retirement population relocating to Prescott/Prescott Valley, Sedona, Cottonwood and Flag, there is the ongoing escalation of home prices as boomers from exitville bring their pay cash hammers. Maybe rent a doublewide in Sedona Shadows with a lot fee so inflated it will make your teeth ache. Flag property shopping you better have a tenured professor's salary.
There is more to life than 100 degree summers, eye problems from arid climate, and competing for parking spaces at Prescott Costco. Anyone who remembers Sedona from twenty years ago and is honest with themselves, knows Sedona is now a mess. Visit in the Winter if you must. Prescott once had a nice little bread/sandwich/soup place (Pangea Bakery) near the Courthouse Square. Of course it is gone now. The Prescott Mall is half vacant last time I was there. Maybe do breakfast at that chain Wildflower Bread. It's popular. The one in Flag is popular too. I could live without it though. IMO even as late as year 2000, I found Prescott/Prescott Valley, Sedona, Cottonwood and Flag not half bad places to make a life. Not so much anymore.
I suspect the population increases, traffic, cost of living, water issues, etc. will become increasing bad to the point all these places will be not much different than all the other places with similar problems. What the h**l to do? Sometimes your life takes a turn and decides for you. Frail parents pushes me to move across the country to be near them. Do I like the burbs north of Atlanta? H**l no - it's a real s**thole with congestion up the ying yang. Take away the church vibe, the sports fixation, the government corruption, the broken transportation system, the southern pride thing..and what's left? Humidity, mold, red clay and undercurrent of racial animosity is what.
Don't think I'll ever live to see Central or Northern AZ become the clusterf**k that burbs north of Atlanta are, but given enough time, we humans can accomplish it somehow. Not missing Flag's stench of Purina plant, sight of seedy flop motels, waiting for trains to clear or potholes. At least don't have to hear one more Sedona local raving about Elote Cafe. They really want to take their visiting LA friends there to prove to them that they don't live in the boonies entirely. Yeah, ok.
Will miss proximity to Grand Canyon. Visiting GC at end of season was personal favorite. Goodbye turnabout tourist land, hello I had a dream sweet tea and grits land. America is changing not for the better in so many places. Do your research to find a place, move there and in ten years you're ready to move again. Welcome to the real new age (;
I put your text in paragraphs so its easier to read.
Onto the subject at hand, how is moving every 10 years a sustainable lifestyle? Seems like only the rich are able to afford housing, while the rest might as well be gypsies. You do make great points however.
I put your text in paragraphs so its easier to read.
Thank you.
Onto the subject at hand, how is moving every 10 years a sustainable lifestyle?
Though military families (I grew up in one btw) move around the country (and abroad) even more often, they are sustained by the military/federal government. Before my move to Arizona, my late wife and I moved on average every three years. Moving can get into your blood if you grew up with it. For those not supported, financially able to do so, it is a losing behavior for most part if buying and selling property is part of the moves. Frequent movers can manage it if they are renter only and adhere to their leases until they expire to maintain good references.
Seems like only the rich are able to afford housing, while the rest might as well be gypsies. You do make great points however.
..and there are increasing numbers of, as you refer to them, "gypsies." Many recent books and articles about Americans living out of recreational vehicles full time. Books such as Nomadland (Jessica Bruder) one of the more recent ones. I frequently met people passing through southwest who went to full time recreational vehicle living. The growth of singles/couples/retirees doing so due to financial and personal choice is huge and growing steadily. I would expand your statement that only rich can afford housing. The upper middle class are managing it, and middle class as well, though latter are increasingly finding housing unaffordable. What happens to budget of those surviving in recreational vehicles when gas prices go high again? The coming (by many credible economists) recession will shake things out once again. My hope is that conservatives and liberals can compromise for good of all the people. The nationalism, tariff wars, huge deficit tax cut spending (by party who lived for decades deriding the Dems over it) mostly favoring top one percent and corporations and John Birch "love it or leave it" mentality is not a sustainable way of running our federal government anymore than liberal dreams of everything for everyone is. Where this mess is headed is anyone's guess, as our best and brightest forecasters have been as accurate or not equally as history shows. Vladimir Putin is lapping up US/UK's self-imposed gridlock. While the Russian intelligence conspired to harm us, the American and British divisions amongst our people are the crux of our problems. Think best advice in near term is buy only what is absolutely necessary, pay down debt aggressively, and squirrel away nest egg for the coming downturn with lost jobs and declining housing equity.
Last edited by trouillot; 01-25-2019 at 04:01 AM..
I put your text in paragraphs so its easier to read.
Thank you.
Onto the subject at hand, how is moving every 10 years a sustainable lifestyle?
Though military families (I grew up in one btw) move around the country (and abroad) even more often, they are sustained by the military/federal government. Before my move to Arizona, my late wife and I moved on average every three years. Moving can get into your blood if you grew up with it. For those not supported, financially able to do so, it is a losing behavior for most part if buying and selling property is part of the moves. Frequent movers can manage it if they are renter only and adhere to their leases until they expire to maintain good references.
Seems like only the rich are able to afford housing, while the rest might as well be gypsies. You do make great points however.
..and there are increasing numbers of, as you refer to them, "gypsies." Many recent books and articles about Americans living out of recreational vehicles full time. Books such as Nomadland (Jessica Bruder) one of the more recent ones. I frequently met people passing through southwest who went to full time recreational vehicle living. The growth of singles/couples/retirees doing so due to financial and personal choice is huge and growing steadily. I would expand your statement that only rich can afford housing. The upper middle class are managing it, and middle class as well, though latter are increasingly finding housing unaffordable. What happens to budget of those surviving in recreational vehicles when gas prices go high again? The coming (by many credible economists) recession will shake things out once again. My hope is that conservatives and liberals can compromise for good of all the people. The nationalism, tariff wars, huge deficit tax cut spending (by party who lived for decades deriding the Dems over it) mostly favoring top one percent and corporations and John Birch "love it or leave it" mentality is not a sustainable way of running our federal government anymore than liberal dreams of everything for everyone is. Where this mess is headed is anyone's guess, as our best and brightest forecasters have been as accurate or not equally as history shows. Vladimir Putin is lapping up US/UK's self-imposed gridlock. While the Russian intelligence conspired to harm us, the American and British divisions amongst our people are the crux of our problems. Think best advice in near term is buy only what is absolutely necessary, pay down debt aggressively, and squirrel away nest egg for the coming downturn with lost jobs and declining housing equity.
I think you made some good points but you lost me on the whole Putin conspiracy with Trump. Trump has actually been harder on the Russians than Obama was (sanctions wise and calling them out on treaty violations and activity in other former vassals). I know hard to believe but you expect the main stream media to highlight this? Breaks their narrative which I think you bought into unwisely. Trump is quiet about this as he is still trying to find some common ground with Russia, which in a geopolitical sense is absolutely in our interest. I'm sure you and I could go back and forth on all that, but I want to focus on where we have commonality. Plus if Russia really did put "agent Trump" in office, wouldn't that be an act of war? Shouldn't there be retaliation? The fact that almost no-one who pushes this false narrative is calling for serious repercussions in my mind at least is telling. The pushers don't even believe there own story. It is all about removing Trump by any means necessary. In the process they burn down a lot of trust in institutions that will take decades to rebuild if ever. But back to the main thrust.
I agree with all your comments on Northern Arizona. I still have hopes that Flagstaff can still be a decent place to live, but it is going to get about as expensive as some California towns and if you subtracted the NAU element it will become an exclusively exitville retiree town. But I hope there is enough of a young influence there to keep it vibrant, and the views (though perhaps more obstructed now that the political change in the city has allowed for taller construction) will still be nice. The rest of the areas for the next 30 years I have no hope for other than the views still being nice and the weather being better than Phoenix.
Part of the traditional way to build wealth in the past was purchasing a home. It still is in a lot of instances. But job stability I think is much rarer now. If you own a home for less that five years even if it sells for more than you bought you probably will just only break even. And if you have a career that earns you a decent salary there just aren't that many high paying jobs in these areas. If you land one great, but unless it is stable you are better off renting so you can beat feat if you need to. Telecommunting opens up opportunities but those jobs are for now still rare (I have one) and if you lose them they might be hard to come by again. I think you made great comments along there.
And those on the margins many of whom have embraced "van life" will feel the heat when the federal reserve inspired recession hits (another institution burning down trust to bring Trump down, but the federal reserve needs to be dismantled anyway as it is neither federal nor has a real reserve). It is a somewhat attractive way to live though. I love watching van life channels on youtube and I pick up a lot of useful tips for my future camper while watching them. If I was single I'd consider it. But laws are coming to make it harder to pull off in many areas. And if you want to "stealth it" you will have to do it in a very cramped vehicle that over time would suck to live in. In a way it is a good choice for young people who live in expensive areas. Bank part of that rent but at kind of a high price in lifestyle. It shows the decline of the middle class in my opinion.
I think now a days being as nimble as you can be and trying to focus on careers that are plentiful and portable is the way to go though with outsoucing (also disagree with your comments about trade wars...we have been in a trade war for about 3 decades now, we are now just starting to just fight back) And if you are starting off try to bank about 30-40% of your income (which is really hard) and have that income not just sit there but have it go into something that produces a return once you get a chunk saved up. Focus on getting your own business going. Or become a corporate "thing" and play cube warrior (done that it sucks) or work for the government in some capacity though recent events show stability there is declining (but still better than the private sector).
As to "John Birch" America first I'm good with that, but I also see how the competitive advantage of being an American is continuously eroding. For many people living overseas might be a better deal and they have every right to look at doing so. I do. I predict I'll be out of here in three or four years. I will always be America first but the sun rises on many seas and some of them are for myself and my family a better individual deal. Young people should look at expat living too, especially if the political landscape continues to become more fragmented. No one delivers wonder bread, toilet paper, and deodorant when a civil war is going down. All stuff I like anyway.
And to trouillot I'm sorry you left for Atlanta. Honorable what you did though to support your parents, good on you. When in the future you are looking to move again, check out Plovdiv or Veneko Ternovo. Expat spots that I considered in the past. You could do a lot worse.
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