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Old 04-01-2009, 11:23 AM
 
8,518 posts, read 15,638,795 times
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Everywhere I look, people badmouth cardio. Some people claim it causes you to lose muscle, others claim it's totally unnecessary to lose weight, and still others claim that it's hard on the body. I remember when weight training was similarly demonized. People claimed it would make you bulky and inflexible, that it was bad for your joints, etc.

When it comes to health and fitness, I'm a big believer in balance. Instead of low-carb or low-fat or high-protein, I follow a diet that's well balanced. Likewise, when it comes to fitness, I incorporate both cardio and weight training into my routine.

One argument you'll always hear against doing cardio is that it eats muscle. But why is it that the people who make this argument always use the example of the marathon runner? Why do they have to use an extreme to prove their point? This argument never made sense to me. Think about it from an evolutionary perspective. Imagine if the caveman woke up and needed to eat. He has no kitchen to go to, no McDonald's nearby, and no garden outside. He has to go hunting. Maybe he sees an animal, chases after it for 20-30 minutes, catches it, and kills it. If cardio really ate muscle, then this guy would have no muscle after doing this every morning. Where would the human species be if muscle could be so easily cannibalized? Think about the basketball players running back and forth and back and forth on the court. Do they look like they're lacking muscle? From my own experience, if you're losing muscle, it's probably from insufficient calories and/or protein.

Another argument I hear is that you don't need to do cardio to lose weight. Well, I'll be the first to admit that some people don't. We all respond differently to exercise. Some of us can get away with doing very little. Others, like me, need to do it daily. But the idea that no one needs to do cardio feels like something a marketing person came up with. Most people are naturally lazy. If they can lose weight without hard work, they'll be happy. So if you tell someone they can skip the cardio and still lose weight, they'll gladly do so. But if something's too good to be true, it usually is.

Lastly, the idea that cardio is bad for the body fails the credibility test. The human body was designed to move. Sure, if you overdo it, your body will pay for it. But I think we underestimate just how resilient and capable the body really is.

Sorry for the rant. I just get tired of people who say cardio is useless. If you're serious about losing weight or just being healthy, then don't shy away from cardio and don't let the extremists convince you that it's evil.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:33 AM
 
Location: SE Michigan
968 posts, read 2,588,844 times
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they can say all they want about cardio but I've never had the weight come off faster than I have since I statrted running. I can assure that wasn't muscle that came off either.

Balance is key.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:05 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 10,326,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crustedfilth View Post
they can say all they want about cardio but I've never had the weight come off faster than I have since I statrted running. I can assure that wasn't muscle that came off either.

Balance is key.
I agree-I have run for years and it is great at keeping weight off and to build muscle tone. Also good if someone needs to lose weight. I do lift weights in addition to running and I have muscle tone but I don't have huge muscles. I run for competition and health and to stay slim but toned.

I guess it depends on your goals. Everyone should have cardio as part of their regimen. A professional body builder is geared mostly toward weights but still needs cardio and knows the right blend so not to compromise his muscle building. The average person looking to get fit needs a different mix of cardio and weights.

Of course doing a lot of cardio and not eating properly could cause muscle loss, but that has to do with not properly fueling your body-not because of the cardio itself.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,713,752 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Everywhere I look, people badmouth cardio. Some people claim it causes you to lose muscle, others claim it's totally unnecessary to lose weight, and still others claim that it's hard on the body. I remember when weight training was similarly demonized. People claimed it would make you bulky and inflexible, that it was bad for your joints, etc.

When it comes to health and fitness, I'm a big believer in balance. Instead of low-carb or low-fat or high-protein, I follow a diet that's well balanced. Likewise, when it comes to fitness, I incorporate both cardio and weight training into my routine.

One argument you'll always hear against doing cardio is that it eats muscle. But why is it that the people who make this argument always use the example of the marathon runner? Why do they have to use an extreme to prove their point? This argument never made sense to me. Think about it from an evolutionary perspective. Imagine if the caveman woke up and needed to eat. He has no kitchen to go to, no McDonald's nearby, and no garden outside. He has to go hunting. Maybe he sees an animal, chases after it for 20-30 minutes, catches it, and kills it. If cardio really ate muscle, then this guy would have no muscle after doing this every morning. Where would the human species be if muscle could be so easily cannibalized? Think about the basketball players running back and forth and back and forth on the court. Do they look like they're lacking muscle? From my own experience, if you're losing muscle, it's probably from insufficient calories and/or protein.

Another argument I hear is that you don't need to do cardio to lose weight. Well, I'll be the first to admit that some people don't. We all respond differently to exercise. Some of us can get away with doing very little. Others, like me, need to do it daily. But the idea that no one needs to do cardio feels like something a marketing person came up with. Most people are naturally lazy. If they can lose weight without hard work, they'll be happy. So if you tell someone they can skip the cardio and still lose weight, they'll gladly do so. But if something's too good to be true, it usually is.

Lastly, the idea that cardio is bad for the body fails the credibility test. The human body was designed to move. Sure, if you overdo it, your body will pay for it. But I think we underestimate just how resilient and capable the body really is.

Sorry for the rant. I just get tired of people who say cardio is useless. If you're serious about losing weight or just being healthy, then don't shy away from cardio and don't let the extremists convince you that it's evil.
Great points.

There's also another misconception in cardio. That tough cardio is more effective.

I see people putting level 15 in the elliptical and kill themselves, like drawing a bullock cart in the place of the cattle. I used to be among this lot as well.

Then slowly I realized it's all about the heart rate and duration. That high level work out was hard on my patella that in late 2007 I started hearing something talk to each other in my left knee. It was like an abrasive feeling with 2 bones going dub dub dub.

It knocked me off cardio for at least six months. Still I got by with some amount of biking. But to supplant this, I got into weights and the bad thing was I gained mass. It greatly developed my chest, arms and shoulders, but I was not fitting into that small american eagle shirt

Life's much better now and I have suspended weights since january and I have been doing intensive cardio since, morning and evening. It just feels great!
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Mountain View, CA
1,152 posts, read 3,200,408 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Everywhere I look, people badmouth cardio. Some people claim it causes you to lose muscle, others claim it's totally unnecessary to lose weight, and still others claim that it's hard on the body. I remember when weight training was similarly demonized. People claimed it would make you bulky and inflexible, that it was bad for your joints, etc.

When it comes to health and fitness, I'm a big believer in balance. Instead of low-carb or low-fat or high-protein, I follow a diet that's well balanced. Likewise, when it comes to fitness, I incorporate both cardio and weight training into my routine.

One argument you'll always hear against doing cardio is that it eats muscle. But why is it that the people who make this argument always use the example of the marathon runner? Why do they have to use an extreme to prove their point? This argument never made sense to me. Think about it from an evolutionary perspective. Imagine if the caveman woke up and needed to eat. He has no kitchen to go to, no McDonald's nearby, and no garden outside. He has to go hunting. Maybe he sees an animal, chases after it for 20-30 minutes, catches it, and kills it. If cardio really ate muscle, then this guy would have no muscle after doing this every morning. Where would the human species be if muscle could be so easily cannibalized? Think about the basketball players running back and forth and back and forth on the court. Do they look like they're lacking muscle? From my own experience, if you're losing muscle, it's probably from insufficient calories and/or protein.

Another argument I hear is that you don't need to do cardio to lose weight. Well, I'll be the first to admit that some people don't. We all respond differently to exercise. Some of us can get away with doing very little. Others, like me, need to do it daily. But the idea that no one needs to do cardio feels like something a marketing person came up with. Most people are naturally lazy. If they can lose weight without hard work, they'll be happy. So if you tell someone they can skip the cardio and still lose weight, they'll gladly do so. But if something's too good to be true, it usually is.

Lastly, the idea that cardio is bad for the body fails the credibility test. The human body was designed to move. Sure, if you overdo it, your body will pay for it. But I think we underestimate just how resilient and capable the body really is.

Sorry for the rant. I just get tired of people who say cardio is useless. If you're serious about losing weight or just being healthy, then don't shy away from cardio and don't let the extremists convince you that it's evil.
Most of these misconceptions are TRUE, but only in very limited circumstances. I'll take each in turn:

1) Cardio causes you to lose muscle.
Technically this CAN be true. As you cited in the extreme example of a marathon runner, generally speaking, our bodies tend to emphasize fast-twitch or slow-twitch muscle fibers. So, someone who focuses on endurance (slow-twitch) will have a lower percentage of fast twitch, and therefore smaller muscles and less LBM. BUT, that is an extreme case. And part of it is training specific. There's no reason you can't train to run marathons twice a year, AND lift weights, and get pretty buff. You may not be as fast, which is why most marathon runners choose not to "buff up" but there's not technical limitation I'm aware of.

So, unless you are training for the Mr. Olympia, the amount of mass you will lose by incorporating cardio is minimal. Even if your goal is to get jacked, it is not unreasonable to incorporate moderate cardio for heart benefits and so forth. That said, if you are a hard-gainer, and gaining mass is your goal, it may be advisable to dial back the cardio a bit if you do a lot of it (while bulking) - but there's no reason to eliminate it entirely.

2) Cardio is unnecessary to lose weight.
This is true. All you need to lose weight is a decent macronutrient profile and a calorie deficit. Cardio burns calories, and will therefore help you attain such a deficit (and give you a little more wiggle room with your diet) but for weight loss, it is not strictly necessary. Nonetheless, for most people, a combination of diet, cardio, and lifting makes for the easiest weight loss.

3) Cardio is hard on the body.
Depends on the cardio. One of the most popular forms - running - is very hard on the body. Some people never have a problem, but many do. That said, other forms, like swimming and road biking, are virtually zero impact. So, to me, the hard on the body thing, while true in some cases, is a dead herring raised by people who don't want to sweat.

CONCLUSION: The vast majority of individuals will benefit most from a combination of healthy eating, cardiovascular exercise, and weight lifting. What your specific goal is may dictate how much cardio vs. lifting you do, but there is seldom a reason to totally eliminate one or the other.

And if lifting is not your thing - some people just don't like it - by all means, do cardio! Improve your heart, get the blood flowing, and increase your lung capacity!
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:44 PM
 
8,518 posts, read 15,638,795 times
Reputation: 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahutch View Post
Most of these misconceptions are TRUE, but only in very limited circumstances. I'll take each in turn:

1) Cardio causes you to lose muscle.
Technically this CAN be true. As you cited in the extreme example of a marathon runner, generally speaking, our bodies tend to emphasize fast-twitch or slow-twitch muscle fibers. So, someone who focuses on endurance (slow-twitch) will have a lower percentage of fast twitch, and therefore smaller muscles and less LBM. BUT, that is an extreme case. And part of it is training specific. There's no reason you can't train to run marathons twice a year, AND lift weights, and get pretty buff. You may not be as fast, which is why most marathon runners choose not to "buff up" but there's not technical limitation I'm aware of.

So, unless you are training for the Mr. Olympia, the amount of mass you will lose by incorporating cardio is minimal. Even if your goal is to get jacked, it is not unreasonable to incorporate moderate cardio for heart benefits and so forth. That said, if you are a hard-gainer, and gaining mass is your goal, it may be advisable to dial back the cardio a bit if you do a lot of it (while bulking) - but there's no reason to eliminate it entirely.

2) Cardio is unnecessary to lose weight.
This is true. All you need to lose weight is a decent macronutrient profile and a calorie deficit. Cardio burns calories, and will therefore help you attain such a deficit (and give you a little more wiggle room with your diet) but for weight loss, it is not strictly necessary. Nonetheless, for most people, a combination of diet, cardio, and lifting makes for the easiest weight loss.

3) Cardio is hard on the body.
Depends on the cardio. One of the most popular forms - running - is very hard on the body. Some people never have a problem, but many do. That said, other forms, like swimming and road biking, are virtually zero impact. So, to me, the hard on the body thing, while true in some cases, is a dead herring raised by people who don't want to sweat.

CONCLUSION: The vast majority of individuals will benefit most from a combination of healthy eating, cardiovascular exercise, and weight lifting. What your specific goal is may dictate how much cardio vs. lifting you do, but there is seldom a reason to totally eliminate one or the other.

And if lifting is not your thing - some people just don't like it - by all means, do cardio! Improve your heart, get the blood flowing, and increase your lung capacity!
Cardio can cause you to lose muscle, but the way people talk about it, they make it sound like ANY cardio will eat up muscle. People are so paranoid about it now. And you're right that cardio isn't NECESSARY to lose weight. But doing cardio is a better way to create a caloric deficit than not eating. And too many are just looking for a shortcut. If they can avoid doing any cardio, they would and that's why it makes me cringe whenever I hear someone say that you can lose weight and never have to do cardio. As for running, that too can be hard on the body if done too much, on the wrong surface and without good running shoes. There was even one thread in here where someone said that high-intensity cardio was bad for the heart.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:31 PM
 
37,604 posts, read 45,972,346 times
Reputation: 57174
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Everywhere I look, people badmouth cardio. Some people claim it causes you to lose muscle, others claim it's totally unnecessary to lose weight, and still others claim that it's hard on the body. I remember when weight training was similarly demonized. People claimed it would make you bulky and inflexible, that it was bad for your joints, etc.

When it comes to health and fitness, I'm a big believer in balance. Instead of low-carb or low-fat or high-protein, I follow a diet that's well balanced. Likewise, when it comes to fitness, I incorporate both cardio and weight training into my routine.

One argument you'll always hear against doing cardio is that it eats muscle. But why is it that the people who make this argument always use the example of the marathon runner? Why do they have to use an extreme to prove their point? This argument never made sense to me. Think about it from an evolutionary perspective. Imagine if the caveman woke up and needed to eat. He has no kitchen to go to, no McDonald's nearby, and no garden outside. He has to go hunting. Maybe he sees an animal, chases after it for 20-30 minutes, catches it, and kills it. If cardio really ate muscle, then this guy would have no muscle after doing this every morning. Where would the human species be if muscle could be so easily cannibalized? Think about the basketball players running back and forth and back and forth on the court. Do they look like they're lacking muscle? From my own experience, if you're losing muscle, it's probably from insufficient calories and/or protein.

Another argument I hear is that you don't need to do cardio to lose weight. Well, I'll be the first to admit that some people don't. We all respond differently to exercise. Some of us can get away with doing very little. Others, like me, need to do it daily. But the idea that no one needs to do cardio feels like something a marketing person came up with. Most people are naturally lazy. If they can lose weight without hard work, they'll be happy. So if you tell someone they can skip the cardio and still lose weight, they'll gladly do so. But if something's too good to be true, it usually is.

Lastly, the idea that cardio is bad for the body fails the credibility test. The human body was designed to move. Sure, if you overdo it, your body will pay for it. But I think we underestimate just how resilient and capable the body really is.

Sorry for the rant. I just get tired of people who say cardio is useless. If you're serious about losing weight or just being healthy, then don't shy away from cardio and don't let the extremists convince you that it's evil.
I have NEVER heard anyone say this. Who on earth are you talking to? Anyone with half a brain knows how important cardio is. Anyone else must have their head in the sand.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,974 posts, read 33,951,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Everywhere I look, people badmouth cardio.
Where exactly are you looking?

Cardio training is one of the most important parts of being healthy. It can be running, jogging, treadmill, elliptical, jumping rope, punching the heavy bag, swimming, stairs, etc. Show me someone who is "badmouthing cardio training" and I'll show you someone who is NOT in good shape/healthy.

That whole "look at marathon runners" crap and their lack of muscle is really just that - CRAP. People look at things through tunnel vision instead of the whole picture. Those guys train specifically for that race and nothing else. Take boxers as another example. These guys do their road work - running miles each morning, then jumping rope in the afternoon as well as rounds on the heavy and speed bag - all of which is cardio training. You dont see anyone saying anything about boxers losing muscle or strength from all of their cardio training do you? Same can be said of mixed martial arts fighters.

So, I think the people you talk to are either fat lazy slobs who look for the easy (i.e., lazy) way out of things, or they are of the body builder type who just train for size and max weight - both of these types are NOT what anyone would consider healthy/athletic type people.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:19 AM
 
1,402 posts, read 3,501,086 times
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Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I have NEVER heard anyone say this. Who on earth are you talking to? Anyone with half a brain knows how important cardio is. Anyone else must have their head in the sand.
Yeah, I've never heard of any of this either...maybe these are misconceptions that are floating around the hard-core weight lifting scene.

Wherever they are....cardio DOES NOT eat muscle. Muscle catabolism occurs in a number of situations, most of which would be considered pathologic states (i.e. diseased) states...for example, starvation.

Now, if you were to say that cardio work causes muscle to change, then that would be a more accurate statement. Untrained muscle is a mix of larger, fast-twitch and smaller, slow-twitch fibers. Weight lifting stimulates muscle to adapt to have more of the larger-diameter fast-twitch fibers making the muscle larger. Cardio favors the smaller, slow-twitch fibers. These types of muscle fibers aren't able to generate the massive amounts of force that fast-twitch fibers can, but they can continue to work long after fast-twitch fibers would fatigue and fail (i.e not longer contract and do work).
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:57 AM
 
8,518 posts, read 15,638,795 times
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Originally Posted by DaBeez View Post
Where exactly are you looking?
Go to the bookstore, look on the internet, watch some infommercials, even comb through some of the threads on this forum. I see it all the time and I roll my eyes whenever I do. The weight loss industry is a billion dollar business. Every month, some new product or exercise routine comes out claiming a revolutionary way of losing fat. What you rarely hear anymore is someone emphasizing the fundamentals. Instead, people want something new and there's always someone out there willing to give it to them. I saw one commercial for some machine where they show some guy struggling on a treadmill and the host says he's wasting his time and consuming muscle. Then he switches to the product being advertised and "magically" has 6-pack abs. It's just hilarious to see claims like this. But it's also on the internet. I'm on a mailing list and I regularly get links to download the latest eBook that shows you how can lose weight and how cardio is a waste of your time. To me, all of this is why so many people are overweight. No one wants to exercise. They want to be told that Machine X can give them a ripped physique in 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week. When I have time, I will dig up some links or book titles. It's just everywhere I look.
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