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Old 01-22-2020, 07:50 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Still on about this eh? The Ussr caused its own collapse and that's what brought you the joys of the 90s. Not the evil west, nor capitalism... But socialist communism that ran out of money.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:21 AM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Still on about this eh? The Ussr caused its own collapse
Yes, that was always my opinion.

The radicalism of the Soviet government, the adherence to unrealistic dogmas, the stubborn refusal to implement the timely adjustments - with other words reasonable things that were long overdue brought the implosion of the Soviet system in its "original form."
Not the "arms race" and not America - I don't believe so.

Quote:
and that's what brought you the joys of the 90s. Not the evil west, nor capitalism... But socialist communism that ran out of money.
I already brought enough of proofs that US "economic advisers" combined with the greediest bastards within the Russian government AND the ultra-right capitalism were directly responsible for the misery of the 90ies.

You as usual can't provide anything but your own la-la.


So this ultra-right capitalism ( still forced upon that part of the world - Ukraine is the latest example of it) is directly responsible for the demographic collapse.

After I lived long enough in the US to observe the cultural differences with Russia ( that go back to historical roots/reasons,) it became apparent to me why "wild capitalism" served America rather well, but it's deadly practically for anyone else.

And to be honest, it becomes more and more toxic even for America itself as the time progresses, because (interestingly enough) of the racial issues, if I can pinpoint the true reason behind it all.
I don't remember exactly, I think it was Lenin who said that "family is the cell of the society," "cell" being the "smallest structural and functional unit of an organism."
So it became clear to me that those "cells" are quite different in American society vs say Russian society ( and I would guess for any other European country out there, but in this case we are talking about the Eastern Europeans in particular.)
And so what works for one type of cell, does not work for the other.

With other words, all this boils down straight to "women's" question, and how it's defined in every culture out there.

And THIS what triggers the mechanism of economic structure, whether it benefits any given nation or not.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:39 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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You have to force yourself to ignore real world data to subscribe to this viewpoint. For example, the clear link between birth rates and under developed countries. This ignorance is similar to those who think socialism benefits nations, despite the continuing proof it does not.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:04 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
You have to force yourself to ignore real world data to subscribe to this viewpoint. For example, the clear link between birth rates and under developed countries. This ignorance is similar to those who think socialism benefits nations, despite the continuing proof it does not.

What "viewpoint?"
You do realize that women ( and their outlook on child-bearing/child raring) in underdeveloped countries is different from Eastern European women?
Heck, even the outlook of BLACK women in the US on these issues is different from the Whites, so what "viewpoint" are you talking about?
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:11 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
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This ignorance is similar to those who think socialism benefits nations, despite the continuing proof it does not.
I can name 2 socialist countries that are indiputable successes. Sweden and Norway. Socialism done correctly works.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:18 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I can name 2 socialist countries that are indiputable successes. Sweden and Norway. Socialism done correctly works.
We hold different definitions of socialism. Those 2 don't have much in common with the ruinous socialism of the Ussr.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Russia
1,348 posts, read 625,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
We hold different definitions of socialism. Those 2 don't have much in common with the ruinous socialism of the Ussr.
I agree with the erasure, if the Soviet leadership in the 70s and 80s had been more flexible and carried out the necessary transformations and reforms in the country in a timely manner, I think that the USSR would still exist. In 50-60s, the economic growth rate was 10% per year, and 60-70s-5-7%, which even exceeded the indicators of some developed capitalist countries. In 1947, the Soviet Union was the first in Europe to abolish the card system for distributing goods introduced during the war. Even, in my opinion, earlier than in the USA and England. Although the USSR was still in ruins. In the 50-60s, the industry produced a large number of consumer goods of comparable quality to Western ones. It was only in the late 70s and early 80s that the economy began to fall and there was a shortage of goods, due to mistakes in planning and managing the country.
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Old 01-23-2020, 04:28 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,369 posts, read 19,162,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I can name 2 socialist countries that are indiputable successes. Sweden and Norway. Socialism done correctly works.
Both of those nations are Capitalist...Sweden derives most of its wealth from its capitalist productive economy and Norway does as well with a huge supplementation from extracting and selling their oil. Both also have high taxes that they distribute out through services and benefits...but yes they are very successful currently.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:41 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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A short interruption...
I see that a big event took place in Israel yesterday - namely Holocaust commemoration ( 75 years,) attended by the world leaders.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTIY8kntyY8


The spat between Poland ( that refused to participate in it in Israel) and Russia over it is growing.

"The Russian historical moves have outraged the Polish government, which believes Putin's main motive is to weaken Polish influence in the European Union. Warsaw is one of the strongest supporters of maintaining sanctions on Moscow for its annexation of Crimea and has also been fighting a planned Russian gas pipeline. Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has accused Putin of lying deliberately to deflect from his own failures, including a ban on Russian athletes over doping.
At the same time, Poland has come under criticism for allegedly minimizing the role its own people played in helping Nazi occupiers kill Jews."

Lithuania refused to participate as well, while Ukrainian president Zelensky, being caught in this spat, arrived to Jerusalem, but refused to participate in event under the made-up reason.

Truth of the matter is that Putin's assertive behavior and his reference to "those who served the Nazis in killing Jews on their territories," serves as the reminder of the role Western Ukraine played during the WWII, and current revival of Ukrainian nationalism, coming straight from the Western part of it.



Another important note; Israel (giving the preference to ties with Russia apparently acknowledging its growing influence in the Middle East,)) is using the event as an opportunity to rally the world against Iran.
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:04 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
A short interruption...
I see that a big event took place in Israel yesterday - namely Holocaust commemoration ( 75 years,) attended by the world leaders.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTIY8kntyY8


The spat between Poland ( that refused to participate in it in Israel) and Russia over it is growing.

"The Russian historical moves have outraged the Polish government, which believes Putin's main motive is to weaken Polish influence in the European Union. Warsaw is one of the strongest supporters of maintaining sanctions on Moscow for its annexation of Crimea and has also been fighting a planned Russian gas pipeline. Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has accused Putin of lying deliberately to deflect from his own failures, including a ban on Russian athletes over doping.
At the same time, Poland has come under criticism for allegedly minimizing the role its own people played in helping Nazi occupiers kill Jews."

Lithuania refused to participate as well, while Ukrainian president Zelensky, being caught in this spat, arrived to Jerusalem, but refused to participate in event under the made-up reason.

Truth of the matter is that Putin's assertive behavior and his reference to "those who served the Nazis in killing Jews on their territories," serves as the reminder of the role Western Ukraine played during the WWII, and current revival of Ukrainian nationalism, coming straight from the Western part of it.



Another important note; Israel (giving the preference to ties with Russia apparently acknowledging its growing influence in the Middle East,)) is using the event as an opportunity to rally the world against Iran.
There's events that went on there we will never know about. My exs family has stories about the Hiwis used to fight partisans and to "police" the occupied territories. Outright murder of innocents was an option to the Nazis and their bootlicking minions (you should be proud DKM) along with every crime you can think of with it.

Polands politcians are trying to play the victim card for special privilages. They'll try to rewrite history and keep pounding their fists on peoples heads until something happens. One of the latest I heard was in fall of 1944 they could have saved many Jews if they had not stopped at the Vistula river just west of Warsaw. The fact is they had just fought their way from just west of Smolenck (a distance of hundreds of miles) and they were at the end of their tether. They needed to resupply, regroup, build new air fields closer to the front and the Vistula provided a good stopping point because rivers make good defensive features.

Had they tried to cross the river in the state they were in they would have been massacred by several divisions the Nazis had put together. No sane commander would dare to walk into a cage full of hungry lions.

As for Poland politically then there were so many different groups of resistance fighters it was hard to tell who was who. Greedy stupid leaders of these groups had no eye for anything but power when they were liberated. They fought among themselves as much has they did the Nazis, that's why they had such a pathetic resistance effort. It's a good thing that the Soviets crushed them because they would have only created chaos.
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