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Old 08-21-2018, 08:35 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Agreed, LL saved many Russian lives in all walks of life. There was also the average Russians knowledge of the natural resources around him. Russians have never been so far from the land that they would starve on a beach or shiver squatting on a ledge of coal like your average westerner.

One thing I noticed in a lot of markets was some of the stuff available that was natural. Crayfish for instance. Americans rarely eat them but in Russia you find them by the tub full. Russian soldiers knew how to get them along with fish from the streams and lakes all around them. Mushrooms, berries and wild vegetables were abundent in the summer time. The Germans were impressed by the Russian soldiers ability to feed himself.

I like your attempt at propaganda concerning the Spam and Sherman. It was called "Second Front" for a reason. It was held in contempt and called that in a cynical sense because the allies kept putting off opening a second front. Not that it was practical for them to do it.

The problem with the Shermans were the Sherman M4E3 "Easy Eight" was not the chassis, it was the road wheels and the rubber "tires". in a hot climate like southern Ukraine on rough terrain with a high rate of advance per day the rubber heated, softened, collapsed and came off the wheels leaving nothing between the metal track and road wheel. That rubber tire is why it was called the "Easy Eight". They Russians had to pull most of the Shermans from front line duty because of this or simply abandon them to be fixed at a later time. With the rubber gone the vibration played havoc with the gun sights of the tank and the alignment of the gun. Credit is due though that Russian tankers loved the Sherman because it was a much more comfortable machine to ride in than a T-34. It was not up to the rigors of the Russian front however. It also had a much higher profile than the T-34 which the German PAK gunners liked just as much.
Thank you.

So the simple question I have to ask, is would all this Lend-Lease help mattered if Russians wouldn't have had their own industrial capacities?
So here lies the answer about Stalin and his ultimate role in country's destiny.

"Stalinism is the means of governing and related policies implemented from 1922 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin (1878–1953). Stalinist policies and ideas as developed in the Soviet Union included rapid industrialization, the theory of socialism in one country, a totalitarian state, collectivization of agriculture, a cult of personality[1] and subordination of the interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, deemed by Stalinism to be the leading vanguard party of communist revolution at the time."[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism

This goes in contrast with Trotskysm, which supports a different theory;

"Trotskyism is the theory of Marxism as advocated by Leon Trotsky. Trotsky identified himself as an orthodox Marxist and Bolshevik–Leninist and supported founding a vanguard party of the proletariat, proletarian internationalism and a dictatorship of the proletariat based on working class self-emancipation and mass democracy. Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favor of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists also criticize the bureaucracy that developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin.

Vladimir Lenin and Trotsky were close both ideologically and personally during the Russian Revolution and its aftermath and some call Trotsky its "co-leader".[1]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism

And if you'll read on, you'll realize one interesting thing, that "Trotsky was the paramount leader of the Red Army in the direct aftermath of the Revolutionary period."

This might explain Stalin's paranoia, his fear of "Trotsky's loyalists" in the Soviet Army among the upper commandment and officers, even after Trotsky has been banished from the country and assassinated in...1940? And this might have served as the ground for Stalin's purges in the army before the WWII.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:04 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Pipelines? They transport oil, important but this is a small part of oil production and not really the technical part of oil recovery. I wasn't saying 0% of it is Russian but its far from significant.

Highlights from your purported evidence of Russians giving Kazakhs their energy infrastructure:

"The domestic pipeline system in Kazakhstan is underdeveloped." Natural gas is exported out of 2 pipes. one to China (not Russian) and one to Russia described in your link as "not helpful". Main oil export pipes are the $4 billion Caspian pipeline (not Russian) and the China one (I'll let you guess who). Another pipeline they route oil through is from Ukraine to Poland. Hmm, no Russians there.

The whole point of the article was explaining how kazakhstan is able to work around having to use Russia and Russian "pipes" to export their oil because Russia is obviously an inferior route. Bravo, I lie defeated.
Yes you do)))

https://www.city-data.com/forum/52840645-post6792.html
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:08 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
Reputation: 6690
Old pipes to russia are not responsible for Kazakhstan's oil development. I think you even proved that with your own link. But the usual Russian persistence is strong, I get that.

As for Trotsky, well who knows what would have been if he won the fight but how's this, maybe no war at all if Stalin didin't scare Europe with his bloody expansionist version of Communism. Hitler signed up millions to fight the USSR with ease, even Russians. There is a reason for this.
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Old 08-22-2018, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Old pipes to russia are not responsible for Kazakhstan's oil development. I think you even proved that with your own link. But the usual Russian persistence is strong, I get that.

As for Trotsky, well who knows what would have been if he won the fight but how's this, maybe no war at all if Stalin didin't scare Europe with his bloody expansionist version of Communism. Hitler signed up millions to fight the USSR with ease, even Russians. There is a reason for this.
Trotsky was even more expansionist. Stalin wanted to restore the borders of the Russian Empire, Trotsky wanted to spread communist revolutions across the world and stamp out capitalism.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:05 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Trotsky was even more expansionist. Stalin wanted to restore the borders of the Russian Empire, Trotsky wanted to spread communist revolutions across the world and stamp out capitalism.
He did but not by brute force though. The Trotsky led Comintern failed in Europe. I'm not saying he was pacifist though...
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:27 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Thank you.

So the simple question I have to ask, is would all this Lend-Lease help mattered if Russians wouldn't have had their own industrial capacities?
So here lies the answer about Stalin and his ultimate role in country's destiny.

"Stalinism is the means of governing and related policies implemented from 1922 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin (1878–1953). Stalinist policies and ideas as developed in the Soviet Union included rapid industrialization, the theory of socialism in one country, a totalitarian state, collectivization of agriculture, a cult of personality[1] and subordination of the interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, deemed by Stalinism to be the leading vanguard party of communist revolution at the time."[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism

This goes in contrast with Trotskysm, which supports a different theory;

"Trotskyism is the theory of Marxism as advocated by Leon Trotsky. Trotsky identified himself as an orthodox Marxist and Bolshevik–Leninist and supported founding a vanguard party of the proletariat, proletarian internationalism and a dictatorship of the proletariat based on working class self-emancipation and mass democracy. Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favor of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists also criticize the bureaucracy that developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin.

Vladimir Lenin and Trotsky were close both ideologically and personally during the Russian Revolution and its aftermath and some call Trotsky its "co-leader".[1]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism

And if you'll read on, you'll realize one interesting thing, that "Trotsky was the paramount leader of the Red Army in the direct aftermath of the Revolutionary period."

This might explain Stalin's paranoia, his fear of "Trotsky's loyalists" in the Soviet Army among the upper commandment and officers, even after Trotsky has been banished from the country and assassinated in...1940? And this might have served as the ground for Stalin's purges in the army before the WWII.
There is no doubt in my mind that without the policies put in place and carried out by Stalin and his government the Soviet Union would not have survived the Great Patriotic War. It takes a mighty effort to wage total mechanized war. It takes a huge industrial complex behind the troops and tanks to enable them to do what is needed.

One thing that Hitler and the Nazis worried deeply about was the adverse effects of war on populace of Germany. They were just fine with the Wehrmacht ranging far and wide conquering the enemies of the 3 rd Reich so long as it didn't interfere with their bratwurst production. The industry of Germany was not on a war footing until 1943. Russia was at total war from day one.

If Soviet industry had not been where it was no amount of lend Lease would have saved the Su.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:45 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
I'm saying Americans eat more "crayfish" than anyone else in the world. By far. Probably best to leave the comparisons to those with a better handle on facts instead of alternative ones.
I'm not a fan of food that doesn't have 4 or 2 legs and as far as I know besides in the SE US Crayfish are not popular. I could be wrong.

The foraging abilities of Russian soldiers and what they would eat (practically anything) is legendary.
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Old 08-22-2018, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I'm not a fan of food that doesn't have 4 or 2 legs and as far as I know besides in the SE US Crayfish are not popular. I could be wrong.

The foraging abilities of Russian soldiers and what they would eat (practically anything) is legendary.
It depends on the region, crayfish are very popular in the south particularly Louisiana, but in other regions particularly coastal ones Crabs and Lobsters reign supreme.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:35 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
Putin critic Bill Browder released in Spain

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8375796.html

Any critic of Russia is going to be at risk of murder from both sides. I'd stay out of Britain, Ukraine, Poland, US, and Russia.
So I'm done reading Browder's book now, "Red Notice." ( I didn't even know he wrote a book, until it literally fell on my head in the library)))
So I took it as a sign and read it.
I thought it was an old story, but to my surprise, it's very much in the picture;

"Browder is a financier behind the Magnitsky Act, a 2012 US law designed to sanction Russians suspected of carrying out human-rights offenses and freeze their assets. Several other countries also have versions of the legislation.
The law is believed to threaten much of Putin's personal wealth, which is tied up in foreign assets.
Putin offered to allow US officials to interview Russians suspected of interfering with the 2016 election in exchange for interviewing people close to Browder."



https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...ference-2018-7


I don't know how much truth is in THIS -


"This is not the kind of personal shout out we usually get from Putin at these events. But he’s desperate. So with all this out of the way, let’s go back in time to the Trump Tower meeting and ask again: what was that all about? Well, it was about the Magnitsky Act, which the Russians urgently want repealed. But it was also about delivering dirt on Hillary Clinton."

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...magnitsky-act/

but never the less the story keeps on developing, apparently, since

"Britain passed its own version of the Magnitsky Act earlier this year" as well.

Last edited by erasure; 08-23-2018 at 12:11 AM..
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,859 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Trotsky was even more expansionist. Stalin wanted to restore the borders of the Russian Empire, Trotsky wanted to spread communist revolutions across the world and stamp out capitalism.
His past. What modern leaders of Russia offer their people a new way? They are militarists playing in the Second World War. A dead-end way to hide their super-capitals in Panama. The people of Russia are a pitiful pawn in their game.
P S
I feel sorry for this people. I expected more from this people. They thought they were not the slaves of their unworthy leaders. Pushkin, Gogol, Dostoevsky. You have lost everything!
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