Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Please don't confuse Appalachians as Irish, or Scottish. They are American. The real Irish and real Scottish would generally support Obama. "Scots" btw is an alcoholic drink, not a race of people.
Link to Op-Ed Piece
(http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080612/OPINION02/806120364 - broken link)
I like this little piece about the Scots-Irish of Appalachia and why we as a people don't like Obama. This guy KINDA gets it a little bit, but even this barely scratches the surface. Marginalization, pretentious attitudes about us, the feeling that nobody gives a **** about you. Refreshing to hear after having my people trashed by the entire country for a month for being classified as subhuman trash. Maybe give some of the younger "progressives" around here who are prejudiced against Appalachians some perspective. Or maybe it won't.
Interestingly, Obama actually does have a decent shot in this state. He's only down a few points in the last poll that was released.
Your post is thoughtful and the piece you quote is insightful about the Scots-Irish but he misinterprets Obama's words, and that is the tragedy, for the people the author addresses and for Obama as well. This is what he actually said, in context, and I wish he'd do a better job in clarifying it.
You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, a lot of them — like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they’ve gone through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, and they cling to guns, or religion, or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment, or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
These manifestations of fear and bitterness are natural human nature all over the world in times of stress. It sounds as if it's what the author you quote is describing. You all three are on the same page.
Elitist - that's one of Newt Gingrich's GOPAC buzzwords the right uses against their opposition that always seems to get results, though its roots go back to Pat Nixon and her respectable Republican cloth coat.
By the way I lived in Western Virginia (few miles east on 64 from the WVA line) for many years and it's my life's ambition to go back.
Your post is thoughtful and the piece you quote is insightful about the Scots-Irish but he misinterprets Obama's words, and that is the tragedy, for the people the author addresses and for Obama as well. This is what he actually said, in context, and I wish he'd do a better job in clarifying it.
You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, a lot of them — like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they’ve gone through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, and they cling to guns, or religion, or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment, or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
These manifestations of fear and bitterness are natural human nature all over the world in times of stress. It sounds as if it's what the author you quote is describing. You all three are on the same page.
Elitist - that's one of Newt Gingrich's GOPAC buzzwords the right uses against their opposition that always seems to get results, though its roots go back to Pat Nixon and her respectable Republican cloth coat.
By the way I lived in Western Virginia (few miles east on 64 from the WVA line) for many years and it's my life's ambition to go back.
so unfortunate that this has been so drastically taken out of context. Most of those folks will never hear the real quote and understand that Obama was STICKING UP FOR THEM. They just hear through the grapevine (and maybe faux news) and it's like "WHAT??? THAT ELITIST (or really, probably the n-word) SAID WE WERE BITTER???? WE'LL SHOW HIM!!!"
Meanwhile the republicans have passed every piece of legislation that has made it easy to outsource auto, steel, and mining jobs overseas. Democrats want to regulate it and support their right to unionize. Mind-boggling
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,455,696 times
Reputation: 6670
It's about culture and values, not nationality...
Quote:
Originally Posted by clongirl
Please don't confuse Appalachians as Irish, or Scottish. They are American. The real Irish and real Scottish would generally support Obama. "Scots" btw is an alcoholic drink, not a race of people.
Thanks for the lesson in "P.C." (and whiskey), but we're not talking about race or even nationality here, but about a particular culture and the values that go with it. Also it's well documented that Appalachia and the the South were settled heavily by the "Scots Irish", also known as the "Ulster Scots". Among other things, the term "redneck" comes from the name given to union miners of the 20's & 30's in W. Virginia, eastern Kentucky and western Pennsylvania.... Appalachia.
Please don't confuse Appalachians as Irish, or Scottish. They are American. The real Irish and real Scottish would generally support Obama. "Scots" btw is an alcoholic drink, not a race of people.
WHAT????? "Scots" is an alcoholic drink? I think you know as much about SCOTCH whiskey as you do guns...............notta but you like to say you do. Scotch whisky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No need to pursue why these Irish and Scots would vote for Dumbo in your mind. I know it's out there.
OK, "WVUPharm2007", so you're tired of "prejudice" against Appalachians and "your people".
Even James Webb in his book "Born Fighting" admits that his Scots-Irish kinfolk distinguish themselves by a general combativeness and a love of fighting & drinking, a "cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face" stubbornness, a clannishness that often begets bigotry, blind faith in their leaders & fundamentalist religion, and a general disdain for higher education. So not surprisingly they make up the poorest segment of the population, the most h.s. dropouts, the highest rate of unwed mothers, the greatest users & producers of meth.... the list goes on! So besides disapproval (a.k.a. "prejudice"), what pray-tell IS the "proper" way to view this "culture" (which the rest of us pay for, by the way)?
Odd that I happened to come to this forum at this time to see this thread bumped up....I rarely visit.
So how do you view the region? It is what it is. A group of people in geographic isolation that live in a vicious cycle of hopelessness. They deserve humane dignity and need help to break the cycle.
Back when I wrote this OP (June) it was soon after the primaries in which the media decided it was a great idea to ride the WV countryside to interview hundreds of people about the election....and what showed up on national tv? The minority of ignorant hilljacks that said something stupid on camera. It feeds into the prejudice that Appalachians are subhuman. I was then digusting at how easily people can write all of these people off as worthless without knowing anything about them.
And yet I look at the polls...the 8% gap from back in June has shrunken to a 4% gap...now McCain only leads 49%-45%. It just goes to show that I was right. WV is the only state completely in Appalachia...and yet it is a competitive state in the election. How can this be if it is a backwards racist hellhole that would never vote for a black man?
The answer is because the media, brilliant internet political forum posters, and the status quo are all oblivious to how the region thinks.
Your post is thoughtful and the piece you quote is insightful about the Scots-Irish but he misinterprets Obama's words, and that is the tragedy, for the people the author addresses and for Obama as well. This is what he actually said, in context, and I wish he'd do a better job in clarifying it.
You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, a lot of them — like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they’ve gone through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, and they cling to guns, or religion, or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment, or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
These manifestations of fear and bitterness are natural human nature all over the world in times of stress. It sounds as if it's what the author you quote is describing. You all three are on the same page.
Elitist - that's one of Newt Gingrich's GOPAC buzzwords the right uses against their opposition that always seems to get results, though its roots go back to Pat Nixon and her respectable Republican cloth coat.
By the way I lived in Western Virginia (few miles east on 64 from the WVA line) for many years and it's my life's ambition to go back.
See, that's not it. It's not that he was disrespecting the idea of "clinging" to guns and religion....it's that he seriously thinks that we lack the intellectual depth to do otherwise. That's for me, anyway. The fact that I view the election as pointless because nothing around me will change because of it must be because of my distractability towards things that fire bullets and religion. That pissed me the hell off, honestly...
Please don't confuse Appalachians as Irish, or Scottish. They are American. The real Irish and real Scottish would generally support Obama. "Scots" btw is an alcoholic drink, not a race of people.
You ever see that movie Braveheart? Yeah...THOSE crazy f'n people. The Scots-Irish. The ones that fled to the mountains the second they got to America. Most of the "other" Irish tend to be in the Northeast...and, yes, I'd imagine they support Obama.
Location: Techified Blue (Collar)-Rooted Bastion-by-the-Sea
663 posts, read 1,863,939 times
Reputation: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUPharm2007
The answer is because the media, brilliant internet political forum posters, and the status quo are all oblivious to how the region thinks.
Look - no one except a native like you cares about West Virginia - nationally it is an afterthought - there is no disputing that fact. No one in Calif. or NY or Illinois cares to be informed about how people in the region differ from the stereotypes - it simply doesn't matter. I am not saying this to be insulting, I am just telling it like it is. West Virginia is very scenic and has its merits - I have driven through. I thought people were friendly enough compared to other regions - but these are just anecdotes.
The media will only care about learning about WV during political campaigns during which it is a true battelground. Most feel that McCain will win this state, hence the lack of "digging in".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's about culture and values, not nationality...
