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Old 07-29-2008, 11:32 PM
 
3,459 posts, read 5,815,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
With 9,200 more jobs lost, it's the sixth-largest mass layoff of the year.
That's gonna leave a mark....

These are all middle class establishments. It seems like the upper class and deep discount businesses are managing to weather the storm, but it wouldn't surprise me to keep seeing middle of the road chains like Sears, JC Penny, Applebees, etc. going under.

 
Old 07-29-2008, 11:42 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,547,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
That's gonna leave a mark....

These are all middle class establishments. It seems like the upper class and deep discount businesses are managing to weather the storm, but it wouldn't surprise me to keep seeing middle of the road chains like Sears, JC Penny, Applebees, etc. going under.
Yeah those kinds of places are very sensitive to the economy. You don't go to a place like Applebee's because its a special experience. You don't go there because its really cheap. You go there because, well, um, you have the money and you don't feel like cooking. Take away disposable income and you really can't justify going there.
 
Old 07-30-2008, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 19,047,976 times
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sterlinggirl wrote:
These are all middle class establishments. It seems like the upper class and deep discount businesses are managing to weather the storm, but it wouldn't surprise me to keep seeing middle of the road chains like Sears, JC Penny, Applebees, etc. going under.
The middle of just about everything ( the middle class, middle of the road politicians, even the very ability of people to meet in the middle and work things out ) seems to be getting squeezed from of existence. The USA is becomming more and more a nation of haves and have-nots.
 
Old 07-30-2008, 10:26 AM
 
26,326 posts, read 49,296,575 times
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I'm with JazzLover about rail, marvelously efficient, both in space and energy use. All trains can be powered by overhead or third-rail electric sources which can be generated HERE, not by OPEC. I like that aspect a LOT.

FYI: for non-rail fans, those "diesels" you see running on the tracks are a form of hybrid vehicle. Yes, there is a HUGE diesel engine in the unit, but all it does is spin a very big generator, which in turn sends electricity to ELECTRIC traction motors that are married up to each axle. Correct name for these are "diesel-electric locomotives" but they could be converted to all electric if so needed - or incentivized by the government. Hmmmmm. Pardon the digression.

In order for rail to re-emerge in those old farm towns (or ANYwhere else in this country) on any meaningful scale, will take a LOT of Federal investment. But since our government has bankrupted itself (I'll spare you that rant) there is NO money for any new initiatives without either major tax hikes or major borrowing.

My best solution is to invest heavily in electric car technology. I see it as the only way out of this trick bag we're in. The roads are there, the expense of maintaining them is on the plate, but seems doable if we can get our priorities right in this nation (I'll spare you that rant, too).

Our nation has not invested in infrastructure since the Interstate Highway System was finished in the latter Vietnam era. We seemed to enter some sort of emotional twilight zone of "the end is near" or something, hard to find the exact words, but it seems as if a big sign went up on America (Job Finished, We All Now Can Just Sit Back and Watch It Run Forever and Never Spend a Cent on Stuff Again). Wrong!

As far as the lovely small towns, I know there are tons of great looking towns, many with simply stunning brickwork and other architecture. Both in the midwest or back east, like I've seen in PA....all of which HAD rail service at one time, a seemingly better time. Edit: My hope for these towns was for the baby boomers to retire, move to and restore these old gems.

I want much more investment in rail, in infrastructure, in electric cars and in wind, solar and other energy alternatives.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 07-30-2008 at 10:50 AM..
 
Old 07-30-2008, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,316,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck View Post
The middle of just about everything ( the middle class, middle of the road politicians, even the very ability of people to meet in the middle and work things out ) seems to be getting squeezed from of existence. The USA is becomming more and more a nation of haves and have-nots.
I've found that my middle finger is getting squeezed out from its usual place a lot more lately. Usually when watching bubblevision or the national news...
 
Old 07-30-2008, 06:25 PM
 
26,326 posts, read 49,296,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Yeah those kinds of places are very sensitive to the economy. You don't go to a place like Applebee's because its a special experience. You don't go there because its really cheap. You go there because, well, um, you have the money and you don't feel like cooking. Take away disposable income and you really can't justify going there.
I went to Bennigan's twice in my life; food was mediocre, often frozen entrees or simple stuff prepared by unskilled labor using menu cards. It seemed mostly a drinking club for the early twenties crowd. Steak & Ale wasn't bad, but so many places sell steaks that it's hard to differentiate. As you say, a reduction in discretionary spending due to inflation in gas, food and many other things is now weeding out marginal players, including 600 Starbucks around the country that are shutting.
 
Old 07-30-2008, 06:51 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,547,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck View Post
sterlinggirl wrote:
These are all middle class establishments. It seems like the upper class and deep discount businesses are managing to weather the storm, but it wouldn't surprise me to keep seeing middle of the road chains like Sears, JC Penny, Applebees, etc. going under.
The middle of just about everything ( the middle class, middle of the road politicians, even the very ability of people to meet in the middle and work things out ) seems to be getting squeezed from of existence. The USA is becomming more and more a nation of haves and have-nots.
I agree in part with this, but I have a different view of much of what is happening to the middle class. The sad fact is that, to a lot of the "middle class" in this country, being middle class means that they are entitled to have 3 or 4 kids upon whom they lavish every expensive gadget and indulgence there is, they own a vehicle for everyone over 16 years old in the household, they have a boat and an RV for fun, their house is 2,500 sq. feet plus and full of all nature of appliances and electronic gadgets, they expect to retire at 55 years old and be supported by a pension fund or Social Security with no reduction in their living standard for another 25-35 years--and they expect to pay for all of that by borrowing money that they have no real prospect of being able to repay, depending on speculative gains to bail them out of financial trouble, or hoping that entitlements (mostly paid for by other taxpayers) will make up for whatever they can't discipline themselves enough to save for. Anyone with a lick of financial sense would say that scenario is living in a fantasy world, but that is exactly the dream world that tens upon tens of millions of "middle class" Americans now inhabit. Like dreamers dreaming most pleasant dreams, though, the dreamer eventually wakes up to reality much more harsh and unforgiving. That's what is happening now. The hard fact is that much of the American middle class has lived dangerously beyond its means, amassed a huge debt, and is now facing some massive insolvency for that overindulgence. We went on a drunken consumption binge paid for by debt--and now we're broke (along with a debt that will probably break a couple of generations following us). We should be ashamed . . .
 
Old 07-31-2008, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 19,047,976 times
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I'm not losing any sleep over this element of the middle classs being shaken out of their fantasy. It's time to wake up.

Bob from down south wrote:
I've found that my middle finger is getting squeezed out from its usual place a lot more lately. Usually when watching bubblevision or the national news...
Take care of that finger Bob. Don't over use it. Give it a rest from time to time. You're probably gonna need it ( alot ) as this scenario continues to unfold.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 03:51 PM
 
862 posts, read 2,627,589 times
Reputation: 304
"CRUDE oil prices above $US120 a barrel are "abnormal" and could fall to about $US78 under the right circumstances, OPEC president Chakib Khelil said in Jakarta yesterday."

Oil price 'abnormal' but $US78 achievable | NEWS.com.au

Hmmmm... $78 a barrel would be nice, except for the doom & gloom club, they only are happy when things are bad.

Anyone here invest in rails? All the bad news that has been circulated here would help railroad investments but the good news would surely hurt it.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,316,197 times
Reputation: 1703
I would be happy with oil at $78/bbl. I would also be happy if I won the lotto. Especially happy, given that I didn't buy a ticket (lotteries are a tax on those who ditched math class in school).

I have nothing invested in rails, but see them as a clearly emerging piece of any transportation solution going forward.

Here's a good pull-no-punches look at US financials I found on Marty Weiss' website:

Unthinkable Truth, Undeniable Reality (http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/Issues.aspx?Unthinkable-Truth-Undeniable-Reality-2024 - broken link)

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