Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is often the case, but these companies do get challenged. Once a new company gets sufficiently large they can start challenging other companies.
Often these sorts of companies develop off the radar of established interests. I think Google is a good example. Nobody really understood it and by the time they understood the power they had it was too late, they were already too big.
That's what I said in another thread... Innovation.
In the case of Google, doing something that hasn't been done... and doing it better than others.
Innovation trumps blissful ignorance... such that the actual paper newspaper outlets are hurting if they just stick to their guns.
Maybe it's time for the guy that wants to do something for himself, to put his ego aside and start doing something for the good of society as a whole. The day of the rugged individual looking out for his own interests is hopefully coming to an end.
No thanks, I value my individualism, and freedom tooooo much to simply lie down and become a mindless drone, you have right at it though. And while youre droning along with the crowd, will YOU be looking out for my interests?
And BTW, I've never asked for any handout/bailout from the govt. So there's(one of) my contribution(s) to your perfect society.
Honestly..Countrywide collapsed and it wasn't the end of the world.
Lehman collapsed and it wasn't the end of the world.
It's not every bank and public company that needs to be bailed out.
Give the money to strengthen the solid little guy and let the big guy fail.
Small business is where all that economic stimulus should have gone IMHO.
That's where the job creation will come from, not these big corporates who will get it..that will only go to strengthen their balance sheets, shareholder equity and CEO wallets.
The government will give people work but will not create jobs. Once these roads and bridges and private country clubs are redone then the "work" is over. A "job" was never created.
There are some arguments that this same thing happened during the Great Depression..there was work but no jobs got created. The war was what "created" the jobs.
Yea, I hear you and I understand your frustrations. But as we can see with the collapse of some of the big boys... their over inefficiency and decades of mal-practices and poor decisions have caught up with them.
Rules and new regulations can only be bent so far in favor of mass inefficiencies and improper allocation of resources/capital (towards legislation and crony capitalism vs. actual innovation).
The Oil companies and some of the other companies with mass tax payer subsidies and favorable rules may also see the day of the dinosaur if they do not innovate.
Hence, even though they try, without fail, some of the big boys will still fail. And that, brings opportunity to the little guys.
-chuck22b
Well, it seems that whatever "caught up with them" has become a non issue, as the government has bailed them out. They "collapsed" in name only. They will be propped up, and they will continue onward, in a managed way that will be certain to continue to feed the coffers of those it has been feeding all along. Unless you have literally billions to invest in a new auto manufacturing venture to compete, the little guy is locked out of it. Same goes for most other industries.
Big govt is involved in ,and making rules, and regulations for everything. Uncle Sam says............ If you can't pay(and pay and pay and pay), you cant play.
So, when should they liquidate them? Or should we prop them up indefinitely? and let them restart the cycle?
They should not be liquidated, they should be nationalized and stripped into smaller companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b
I understand the difficulty and I know it's not simply just let them fail. The problem is that there doesn't seem like there is a plan or "exit" strategy per say in terms of government involvement (although I'm sure there is in the background). Like I said, "orderly" bankruptcy, perhaps separate out the viable units from the financial units and start breaking things apart. That is what bankruptcy is designed for.
After Lehman brothers they are unlikely to allow a bankruptcy again. That near destroyed the markets. The government is not going to publish its "exit strategy", that would be stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b
At this point, I think people have already priced in (with coverage ratios and reserves like the banks have been bulking up with) for some sort of orderly breakup/bankruptcy.
People? I have no idea what people in general have done, but the loses would pull a number of financial institutions down. How does a bank, etc "price in" such a thing? Yeah, they "priced in" the bankruptcy, if the major banks go bankruptcy they will follow suit!! We are not talking about stocks here....
Honestly..Countrywide collapsed and it wasn't the end of the world.
Lehman collapsed and it wasn't the end of the world.
You were not paying attention if you think the Lehman collapse was unproblematic. The world did not end, right, but why? Because the FED/treasury pumped tons of money into the system. It would have been way cheaper to deal with Lehman in another way.
They should not be liquidated, they should be nationalized and stripped into smaller companies.
After Lehman brothers they are unlikely to allow a bankruptcy again. That near destroyed the markets. The government is not going to publish its "exit strategy", that would be stupid.
People? I have no idea what people in general have done, but the loses would pull a number of financial institutions down. How does a bank, etc "price in" such a thing? Yeah, they "priced in" the bankruptcy, if the major banks go bankruptcy they will follow suit!! We are not talking about stocks here....
Well, then... nationalize them already and break them apart. All we need is for the government to still have to coddle them when the second foot comes stomping down as foreclosures peak again.
A lot of banks have increased coverage ratios drastically in anticipation of more bank failures and for their own losses. Furthermore, by increasing their deposits and loan balances (by issuing stronger loans now to cover the bad loans from the past) they hold to cover losses from the bad assets of yester years. It's not impossible, just really painful.
The banks aren't babies.... they know how to allocate funds to prevent losses (hence why a lot of the government funds have been to build reserves rather than to be loaned back out). The relaxation of mark-to-market will allow them to raise more capital prior to more bankruptcies and government dissolution (if that even happens). Most certainly some of the big boys will be able to survive. But, some of them most definitely should fail. My issue at heart is that our government lets all of them survive, with little to no changes, while letting the tax payers take on all the loses.
In terms of those that believe the trouble is almost over or our economy getting better.... just looking at how the banks are ramping up and how they are far from covering non performing assets plainly shows they are getting ready for a losing battle.
They should not be liquidated, they should be nationalized and stripped into smaller companies.
After Lehman brothers they are unlikely to allow a bankruptcy again. That near destroyed the markets. The government is not going to publish its "exit strategy", that would be stupid.
People? I have no idea what people in general have done, but the loses would pull a number of financial institutions down. How does a bank, etc "price in" such a thing? Yeah, they "priced in" the bankruptcy, if the major banks go bankruptcy they will follow suit!! We are not talking about stocks here....
So when exactly did you join the communist/socialist party? As for socialized errr I mean nationalized that was/is being done by Chavez and was done in Russia. How do you think it worked out for them?
I actually see a lot of opportunities cropping up as the old guards are faltering.
Me too. Time will tell wether or not we exercise the will to take advantage of the opportunities at hand.
yachtcare wrote:
the guy that wants to do something for himself finds he cannot get the materials to do it
Maybe it's time for the guy that wants to do something for himself, to put his ego aside and start doing something for the good of society as a whole. The day of the rugged individual looking out for his own interests is hopefully coming to an end.
You got to be joking. This is America and I hope we stay the home of the rugged individual. I wish all the socialist communist fascist thinkers, starting with obama, would take a boat to their own banana republic and leave our nation intact.
Maybe it's time for the guy that wants to do something for himself, to put his ego aside and start doing something for the good of society as a whole. The day of the rugged individual looking out for his own interests is hopefully coming to an end.
Great idea, you start, you come back and tell me what great big company you start for the purpose of benefiting society, and then you come back and tell us what type of failure it was.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No thanks, I value my individualism, and freedom tooooo much to simply lie down and become a mindless drone, you have right at it though. And while youre droning along with the crowd, will YOU be looking out for my interests?
are redone then the "work" is over. A "job" was never created.
