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It just amazes me how many people follow O and how much influence she has. So many believe everything she says and does, it is scarey. I for one will not watch, listen or buy any of her b.s. if I can help it. She goes from chicken to religion and her ratings keep going on up, I even heard that if Obama gets elected she will have a presences in the White House. Now is that not a terrifiying thought!
There is nothing wrong with caging chickens. A coop is also a cage - just one that you can walk into. It does not just confine the poultry, it protects them from loose dogs, foxes, hawks and/or eagles and inclement weather. There is also nothing wrong with caging a pig. It falls in the same category as a paddock for a horse. Or perhaps she wants us to let horses roam loose, too? No fences anywhere. Where does she draw the line? Pigs need to have a source of heat in the winter and a means to cool off in the summer. To ensure they get these things, the pens are a necessity.
You animal rights wackos can put the link to the PETA tape all you want but I don't buy it. I don't buy it because it is put out by PETA to begin with. I have been to slaughterhouses and none of that was going on. I believe PETA staged the whole thing to make it look like the meat industry is just an evil, wicked place. Get real! The family farmer out there is not going to be able to let their chickens run loose in coyote and bear country and make a profit because their chickens won't be able to live long enough to produce.
When money is no object, it's fine to say it would be a wonderful world to let all the animals roam free, but the reality is that not everyone has the income Oprah has and farmers in particular cannot afford to run the farm as if it were an extension of Fantasyland or Pleasure Island.
So it's a choice between tiny cages or no fences at all? There is no middle ground? I'm sorry but your argument is beyond ridiculous. Solitary confinment in prison is a safe place for humans to be too - keeps them safe, warm and dry.
The cages which are used for factory farming are TINY. As in so tiny that the chickens are right on top of each other, and have no room to even spread their wings at all, or perch which is what chickens do. For larger animals they can't turn around, and barely have room to move at all. It's absolutely revolting that you defend this cruelty so that you can make a buck. There are ways to still make a buck and not torture your animals.
Having said that, I do think PETA is turning itself into a joke too with some of their recent nonsense (human breast milk in ice cream, etc. Yuck).
I do recognize that these animals are bred to be food, and I am not a vegetarian. However, abusing the animals is unnecessary and unjustifiable.
If it can be cost effective to run farms better in Europe it can here too. You need to let go of your 'poor me' attitude and get on with finding a better way to conduct your business. If you can't manage it, then pack up shop because there will be other people who can. If you are unable to treat animals in a humane way and at least allow them enough room in their cages to move around - flap their wings, perch and for larger animals turn around, then sorry I have no sympathy for you at all. Perhaps your going out of business would be the best thing for all concerned.
Last edited by CaseyB; 10-16-2008 at 12:35 PM..
Reason: personal attacks
Hobokenkitchen, It may be pointless and considered political garbage but it was foolish enough for you to comment. FYI it was not intended to start a political discussion it is in light of Oprah's ties and her opinions on subjects that influence her vast following.
As to Alice, You may ask if she is the farmer or just trying to give a different point of view before condemming her. I do not see where she says I am a factory farmer and I put 12 chickens in a 2x3 cage. I personally would like to see more FACT before wishing harm on her and your general statement "best thing for all concerned" doesn't apply to all concerned.
Hobokenkitchen, It may be pointless and considered political garbage but it was foolish enough for you to comment. FYI it was not intended to start a political discussion it is in light of Oprah's ties and her opinions on subjects that influence her vast following.
As to Alice, You may ask if she is the farmer or just trying to give a different point of view before condemming her. I do not see where she says I am a factory farmer and I put 12 chickens in a 2x3 cage. I personally would like to see more FACT before wishing harm on her and your general statement "best thing for all concerned" doesn't apply to all concerned.
It is garbage. Sorry. I don't think Oprah will be setting up offices in the White House and it's just another below the belt attack on Obama, and those are becoming increasingly tiresome and boring. I cannot wait until this election is over and this low level of 'conversation' is over.
It doesn't matter if Alice is the factory farmer or not. My points apply to those who are. IMHO it is best for those who treat animals badly to change they way they do business, or to go out of business. Whether it is 'Alice' or not is absolutely immaterial.
Wow - you really are extreme! So it's a choice between tiny cages or no fences at all? There is no middle ground? I'm sorry but your argument is beyond ridiculous. Solitary confinment in prison is a safe place for humans to be too - keeps them safe, warm and dry.
The cages which are used for factory farming are TINY. As in so tiny that the chickens are right on top of each other, and have no room to even spread their wings at all, or perch which is what chickens do. For larger animals they can't turn around, and barely have room to move at all. It's absolutely revolting that you defend this cruelty so that you can make a buck. There are ways to still make a buck and not torture your animals.
This is a really great post. I totally agree. The cages used in factory farming are tiny, and I don't think we should be promoting this kind of cruelty in our farming systems. I'm glad that Oprah brought it to mainstream attention with her show.
A coop is a henhouse or a farm building for housing poultry. It can be any size. Many farmers and other folks keep chickens, and the chickens live in a coop or henhouse - at least overnight - or get killed and eaten by predators in a very inhumane manner.
Further, as I pointed out before, chickens that are raised for meat live in huge barns and could have an olympic track meet if they wanted to. They don't have roosts because the possibility of their getting hurt on them is too great. Chickens aren't particularly smart to begin with, and in the couple of months they are alive, they don't develop much intelligence. Their bones don't grow as fast as the rest of their bodies and roosts are dangerous. Broilers can get stuck in and under anything, have total lack of bowel control, and will happily poop on their flockmates, food, and water source if given a chance.
If allowed to mingle with wild birds, they are subject to any passing avian virus that they might come in contact with. To keep the meat antibiotic free, there are biosecurity measures that commercial producers have to follow. Exposing them to free flying birds is not safe or practical.
As for the battery farming that is used for egg-laying chickens, consider that incidents of diseases like salmonella in the egg supply have been cut for millions of people to minuscule percentages compared to what is was prior to such measures. Battery farming allows the eggs to almost immediately exit the cages, where they would otherwise be pooped on and otherwise damaged or eaten. If you grow your own, you see this in real life.
Your purchasing choices are what drive the market. If you are dirt poor, those dollar a dozen eggs can keep you alive when four dollar a dozen free range eggs might mean you don't eat as often. If we had an agrarian population about 1/10th the size of the current population, we wouldn't have to be worrying about such things. Farm kids get to experience life first hand, understand that roosters can be aggressive b*stards, and that Thumper can destroy the garden.
If you don't like the way chickens are raised, raise your own and take yourself out of the market and learn at the same time.
As for PETA, PETA is NOT a joke. PETA is a terrorist organization that has zero respect for people or animals. It has a goal of eliminating all interaction between animals and humans, and giving the world over to animals. Every single thing it does is working towards achieving those two goals. No zoos, no animals raised for food, no whale watching, no killing rats, no people encroaching on animal territory in any way. PETA lies. PETA burns buildings housing animals. PETA tramples on the rights of others. PETA pushes for restrictive legislation that gives it more power. PETA has successfully infiltrated the Humane Society and other environmental groups and pushed its agenda. Do NOT make the mistake of dismissing PETA as a joke. They are sociopaths on a mission.
Last edited by CaseyB; 10-16-2008 at 12:36 PM..
Reason: personal attack
I didn't see Hobokitchen launching any personal attacks. I think you're being very silly. Hobo has some great arguments and articulated them very well.
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
4,641 posts, read 11,966,936 times
Reputation: 9889
[quote=harry chickpea;5717743A coop is a henhouse or a farm building for housing poultry. It can be any size. Many farmers and other folks keep chickens, and the chickens live in a coop or henhouse - at least overnight - or get killed and eaten by predators in a very inhumane manner.
Further, as I pointed out before, chickens that are raised for meat live in huge barns and could have an olympic track meet if they wanted to. They don't have roosts because the possibility of their getting hurt on them is too great. Chickens aren't particularly smart to begin with, and in the couple of months they are alive, they don't develop much intelligence. Their bones don't grow as fast as the rest of their bodies and roosts are dangerous. Broilers can get stuck in and under anything, have total lack of bowel control, and will happily poop on their flockmates, food, and water source if given a chance.
If allowed to mingle with wild birds, they are subject to any passing avian virus that they might come in contact with. To keep the meat antibiotic free, there are biosecurity measures that commercial producers have to follow. Exposing them to free flying birds is not safe or practical.
As for the battery farming that is used for egg-laying chickens, consider that incidents of diseases like salmonella in the egg supply have been cut for millions of people to minuscule percentages compared to what is was prior to such measures. Battery farming allows the eggs to almost immediately exit the cages, where they would otherwise be pooped on and otherwise damaged or eaten. If you grow your own, you see this in real life.
Your purchasing choices are what drive the market. If you are dirt poor, those dollar a dozen eggs can keep you alive when four dollar a dozen free range eggs might mean you don't eat as often. If we had an agrarian population about 1/10th the size of the current population, we wouldn't have to be worrying about such things. Farm kids get to experience life first hand, understand that roosters can be aggressive b*stards, and that Thumper can destroy the garden.
If you don't like the way chickens are raised, raise your own and take yourself out of the market and learn at the same time.
As for PETA, PETA is NOT a joke. PETA is a terrorist organization that has zero respect for people or animals. It has a goal of eliminating all interaction between animals and humans, and giving the world over to animals. Every single thing it does is working towards achieving those two goals. No zoos, no animals raised for food, no whale watching, no killing rats, no people encroaching on animal territory in any way. PETA lies. PETA burns buildings housing animals. PETA tramples on the rights of others. PETA pushes for restrictive legislation that gives it more power. PETA has successfully infiltrated the Humane Society and other environmental groups and pushed its agenda. Do NOT make the mistake of dismissing PETA as a joke. They are sociopaths on a mission.[/QUOTE]
I didn't see Hobokitchen launching any personal attacks. I think you're being very silly. Hobo has some great arguments and articulated them very well.
Good job, Hobo.
Thanks Woof.
There's really no point in trying to talk to people with such entrentched views that they cannot see that there is another way for things to be done. If it works in other countries it could work here, and there is no excuse for our mistreatment of animals for personal gain.
I retiterate my point that if more people bought free range eggs, the demand would increase and the price of those eggs would come down.
I am surprised that more folks here aren't interested in supporting their local farmers instead of the national suppliers. No wonder America is in a mess.
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There is no middle ground? I'm sorry but your argument is beyond ridiculous. Solitary confinment in prison is a safe place for humans to be too - keeps them safe, warm and dry. 
