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This research study by the brookings institution found that h1b visa holders earn more than comparable native born workers. They are paid more with a bachelors degree. This clears the whole cynical lie about how h1b workers are indentured servants. They are not. Sure, there are always bad situations, but the h1b program has been the cornerstone of American competitiveness and innovation. H1b workers are everywhere, and they aren't slaves. In fact, many do make more than their american counterparts, start families in america, and integrate in our culture.
The author said it very well. The whole indentured servants argument is smoke. The real story is that these engineers aren't as good as some of their foreign counterparts. So the same emotional anti immigrant sentiments, with a good bit of racist undercurrents, emerged in highly "educated" individuals. This time, they act like tea party people. but instead of ranting like the tea party people and getting laughed at by those who dont feel the competition and don't care, these tech people use the low wage argument, as if they care about those competitors they resent. The low wage argument is smoke. The foreigners aren't paid lower. They perform better. They are assets for our companies. They study what's useful and strive to become a valuable employee and contributor and later leader.
Take a look at the heart of the argument. When you strip free the low wage argument, it's crystal clear that tech workers want "our plight" to be solved. They focus on their narrow interests, by excluding the best and e brightest simply because a more qualified worker is of a different nationality or flew from a different airport. It is clinche anti immigration, and it is in this case. It is just expressed rhetorically to avoid problems tea party people face when their anti immigration is blatant.
This research study by the brookings institution found that h1b visa holders earn more than comparable native born workers. They are paid more with a bachelors degree. This clears the whole cynical lie about how h1b workers are indentured servants. They are not. Sure, there are always bad situations, but the h1b program has been the cornerstone of American competitiveness and innovation. H1b workers are everywhere, and they aren't slaves. In fact, many do make more than their american counterparts, start families in america, and integrate in our culture.
This is beside the point. The issue is that if you increase the supply of labor without increasing demand, wages are lower overall than they otherwise would be. This is not the same thing as whose wages are higher than who else's, but of what happens to the average of them all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
The author said it very well. The whole indentured servants argument is smoke. The real story is that these engineers aren't as good as some of their foreign counterparts.
Based on what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
So the same emotional anti immigrant sentiments, with a good bit of racist undercurrents, emerged in highly "educated" individuals. This time, they act like tea party people. but instead of ranting like the tea party people and getting laughed at by those who dont feel the competition and don't care, these tech people use the low wage argument, as if they care about those competitors they resent. The low wage argument is smoke.
No, your argument addresses things which are entirely beside the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
The foreigners aren't paid lower. They perform better. They are assets for our companies. They study what's useful and strive to become a valuable employee and contributor and later leader.
Stereotype with no justification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress
Take a look at the heart of the argument. When you strip free the low wage argument, it's crystal clear that tech workers want "our plight" to be solved. They focus on their narrow interests, by excluding the best and e brightest simply because a more qualified worker is of a different nationality or flew from a different airport. It is clinche anti immigration, and it is in this case. It is just expressed rhetorically to avoid problems tea party people face when their anti immigration is blatant.
This is beside the point. The issue is that if you increase the supply of labor without increasing demand, wages are lower overall than they otherwise would be.
The thing is, labor demand does not stay static. Increasing labor supply can increase labor demand if the increased supply of labor has job-creating power. One simple example is when a project needs one person with a specific skill set to lead it. Without said person, the project will never commence. When you bring in the person, suddenly 50 positions become available.
I thought the research seemed weak given that they used a broad category of computer occupations which include many specialities that don't have H1-b outsourcing but may have been subjected to heavy offshoring, such as tech support, and also used the age cohort instead of years of experience to compare workers.
The thing is, labor demand does not stay static. Increasing labor supply can increase labor demand if the increased supply of labor has job-creating power. One simple example is when a project needs one person with a specific skill set to lead it. Without said person, the project will never commence. When you bring in the person, suddenly 50 positions become available.
If a person is solely focused on their own job, that makes sense but it is shortsighted. Most people do not see how one highly skilled job eventually creates many jobs. I don't see that because their shortsighted. They just want theirs.
From my experience, they're generally not in key positions unless the positions under them are also filled by H1-b's. They usually take the types of positions usually filled by journeymen (1-5 yrs) and entry-level college graduates. There are some large employers locally who are notorious for staffing entire projects with H1-b's from the team lead on down. They're not using H1-b's because there's a shortage but because of the culture embedded in the organization from Indian H1-b's coming aboard as managers.
This is beside the point. The issue is that if you increase the supply of labor without increasing demand, wages are lower overall than they otherwise would be. This is not the same thing as whose wages are higher than who else's, but of what happens to the average of them all.
Based on what?
No, your argument addresses things which are entirely beside the point.
Stereotype with no justification.
No. It doesn't work like that.
besides what "point"? You mean besides the point you have in your head. Everything he said is correct. The bunk for ages has been how H1B are paid lower than their US qualified equivalents - you can find that argument many times right here ion this board. This actual-survey-not-anecdote disproves that point. Your point, whatever it may be you are arguing in your head about and with whom, is besides the point of this post.
besides what "point"? You mean besides the point you have in your head. Everything he said is correct. The bunk for ages has been how H1B are paid lower than their US qualified equivalents - you can find that argument many times right here ion this board. This actual-survey-not-anecdote disproves that point. Your point, whatever it may be you are arguing in your head about and with whom, is besides the point of this post.
Study shows that h1b visa holders are not stagnating wages. They do participate in competition, but that's market economy and competition is good for our industries. If you say it is competition, I can understand. But the low wage argument denies that there is normal fair competition.
People complain that it takes months for them to find a job. But how are we supposed to say it must be unreasonable? We don't know the person. We have been asked to think that they deserve a shorter amount of job seeking time. But we really can't judge based on that. Sometimes, people overestimate themselves. Then they find scapegoats. H1bs are treated as scapegoats.
The thing is, labor demand does not stay static. Increasing labor supply can increase labor demand if the increased supply of labor has job-creating power. One simple example is when a project needs one person with a specific skill set to lead it. Without said person, the project will never commence. When you bring in the person, suddenly 50 positions become available.
You are a bit out of touch with the way science funding works. Of course, "STEM" is a very diverse group of jobs, but certainly in research science, when it comes to fundamental, not applied, science, most is funded by grants which are doled out based on agency funding levels, not labor supply. Other STEM fields may be different of course, but one should never assume that talent would increase demand for something that is otherwise under-appreciated by any of the relevant decision-makers.
From my experience, they're generally not in key positions unless the positions under them are also filled by H1-b's. They usually take the types of positions usually filled by journeymen (1-5 yrs) and entry-level college graduates. There are some large employers locally who are notorious for staffing entire projects with H1-b's from the team lead on down. They're not using H1-b's because there's a shortage but because of the culture embedded in the organization from Indian H1-b's coming aboard as managers.
Which does not have citizens in its high-level positions? NSF? NIH? Private organizations? (which ones?) Electronics companies such as Intel? Universities? (Which ones?)
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