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Not us you? We still our responsible for our lives and have you been able to move up and on? I am asking beyond the cloak of group speak.
No, you. Even if you stay solvent debtors will drive up your costs. Sorry, you really don't get it.
If you have 99 responsible people who buy houses and 1 real estate speculator buying 10 houses , the law of marginal utility states that their will be huge market distortions for the 99% who will pay more for housing, many of which will fall into negative equity if it pops or just steal away large amounts of their true savings. Their saving will be nothing but liability assets against each other with the carrying charges to the banks.
1 person. destroys the market for 99.
All this good ole conservative home cooking doesn't cut it.And to be honest I doubt many people could even come close to my frugality, or discretionary budget. Living off 2/3 of my income is when I am spend thrift. Even my hobbies pay me in several thousands in savings each year. I rotate this in investments and mortgage reduction. I haven't changed a bit. However the country will as it continues to follow de-industrialization policy.
You want to know what people are doing ? Go to the personal finance, investment and frugality threads.
Again not every one is or was angry and many our now happy with where they are NOW!
My net worth has gone up 20% per year for the last 5 years. What is your point? I don't want to be financially wealthy in a banana republic. I want material wealth and prosperity.
Wow. You're all over the place on this. Some I agree with, some... well, I just dont remember it that way.
For example, I dont recall Reagan "deregulating" banking. Not sure if the Savings and Loan bailout occurred under Reagan or under Bush 41. As for the big investment banks going public, I doubt that was because of anything Reagan did or did not do. The stock market in the 80's was exploding, and I'm sure the driving force was those who had stock in the private companies wanting to capitalize by selling their private shares to the public. Goldman Sachs did not go public until 1999. Lehman did not go public until 1994. Bear Stearns did go public in 1985. So it was not one fell swoop.
Yes the dot com bubble burst. Why? Because the business models never made any sense. All it took was the start of the recession of Q3 2000 forward and investors woke up and sold. Most of those dot com miracles never made a dime of profit. Ever.
The real key deregulation occurred with the cooperation of the republican controlled congress and former Goldman Sachs CEO and Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin in repealing Glass Steagle, and bailing out Long Term Capital Management and gutting the Commodities Futures Trading Commission.
You are absolutely correct about the ratings agencies and their corruption in rating all those CMOs and CDOs as AAA with no research whatsoever.
Sorry, losing ability to concentrate. Hope to see more from you.
You have to see the documentary The Inside Job. It blew my mind and I had to watch it several times because it's so complex. Money is as corrupting a drug as crack. I'm a workaholic so I understand that concept. Morally I can't throw someone else under the bus for it but there are many in power who can. Sometimes I think our society parallels the era of the great robber barons who bought presidents and kept the average Joe down. The pendulum swings both ways and history repeats itself again and again.
I suspect if that happened there would be those angry that banks were sitting on that large a pool of money and not lending it out.
Unless its lent out, its not money. That is to say I adhere to Steve Keen's view of bank credit in that loans create deposits well before reserve ratios come into play. There is no reserve constraint.
You have to see the documentary The Inside Job. It blew my mind and I had to watch it several times because it's so complex. Money is as corrupting a drug as crack. I'm a workaholic so I understand that concept. Morally I can't throw someone else under the bus for it but there are many in power who can. Sometimes I think our society parallels the era of the great robber barons who bought presidents and kept the average Joe down. The pendulum swings both ways and history repeats itself again and again.
Yeah and Lincoln and Sherman, both Republicans, created greenbacks and the Sherman antitrust laws respectively against the land, oil and money trusts. That is why the current republicans are so full of crap. Even had a run in with the EITC where it was attacked a pinko commie, even though it was Friedman who proposed to fix welfare in this way. I think King George will be their next candidate.
I am a republican, but a 19th century one that was pro capital and anti rentier.
No, you. Even if you stay solvent debtors will drive up your costs. Sorry, you really don't get it.
If you have 99 responsible people who buy houses and 1 real estate speculator buying 10 houses , the law of marginal utility states that their will be huge market distortions for the 99% who will pay more for housing, many of which will fall into negative equity if it pops or just steal away large amounts of their true savings.
1 person. destroys the market for 99.
All this good ole conservative home cooking doesn't cut it.And to be honest I doubt many people could even come close to my frugality or discretionary budget. Living off 2/3 of my income is when I am spend thrift. Even my hobbies pay me in several thousands in savings each year. I rotate this in investments and mortgage reduction. I haven't changed a bit. However the country will as it continues to follow de-industrialization policy.
You want to know what people are doing ? Go to the personal finance, investment and frugality threads.
Maybe I do get it and that's the difference. I am 65 and retired January 1, 2008 and could have been a major casualty but as of today have recovered and am ahead of the previous game plan. I have over the years been in multiple threads including two of the above. Not the frugality thread as fortunately I have not needed it. We are still saving and investing and we are one of the ones who benefited from the housing bust as we were able to pick up a place at the beach for half of what it was selling for two years earlier. We are not the only oldies to have done so at the time. I admit selling a house at 95% peak and purchased another one at about 90% peak but fortunately prices have only fallen about 10% so similar houses are selling at or about what we paid for ours and in some cases a tad more. I do know that in life I can read all the stories about group think but I better have a plan for myself. I learned a lot of this back in the Civil Rights era from the 1968 Poor Peoples March. Lots of folks went and heard some great speeches and got really pumped up but a year later for most their economic situation was still the same good or bad. For some it became a not me I better start making some decisions so it doesn't become me down the road. In short just to use some round numbers. If in September of 2007 a person had $100,000 dollars invested and in March of 2009 that had fallen to $50,000 they could had the following choices amongst others:
A. Whine and Moan
B. Complain and blame someone
C. Do and say nothing
D. say something and develop a plan for the 50K they had left
We are now four years later and counting.
Yes I am well aware of and have participated in many forum discussions over those four plus years( more earlier on) but I also knew as I did back in 1968 that group speak aside I needed a personal plan and strategy to move forward and perhaps that is in part why I am not angry.
My net worth has gone up 20% per year for the last 5 years. What is your point? I don't want to be financially wealthy in a banana republic. I want material wealth and prosperity.
My point is just that not every one was or now is angry. You might be and those of like mind might be. You are welcomed to those emotions and thoughts as are others who beg to differ and I do.
in theory so far the only age group that really got hurt is those who retired in the year 2000 who based their withdrawals on their initial portfolios value and tried pulling 4% inflation adjusted and made no adjustments in withdrawals .
high stock valuations coupled with low interest rates and market performance going into retirement can be deadly.
starting in 2001 valuations were lower so retirees initially pulled less and they theoretically look okay.
Yeah and Lincoln and Sherman, both Republicans, created greenbacks and the Sherman antitrust laws respectively against the land, oil and money trusts. That is why the current republicans are so full of crap. Even had a run in with the EITC where it was attacked a pinko commie, even though it was Friedman who proposed to fix welfare in this way. I think King George will be their next candidate.
I am a republican, but a 19th century one that was pro capital and anti rentier.
Maybe I do get it and that's the difference. I am 65 and retired January 1, 2008 and could have been a major casualty but as of today have recovered and am ahead of the previous game plan.
No you don't. You will be able to afford Abishag to warm you but 30 years of discouraging education in real industry will make her useful for little else.
Quote:
I have over the years been in multiple threads including two of the above. Not the frugality thread as fortunately I have not needed it.
I away like frugality. Why should I pay more for caviar? Why should I toss away the fish heads when I can make a stock I cannot even buy ?
Quote:
We are still saving and investing and we are one of the ones who benefited from the housing bust as we were able to pick up a place at the beach for half of what it was selling for two years earlier.
So? What wealth was created? Did we get more beach front?
Quote:
We are not the only oldies to have done so at the time. I admit selling a house at 95% peak and purchased another one at about 90% peak but fortunately prices have only fallen about 10% so similar houses are selling at or about what we paid for ours and in some cases a tad more. I do know that in life I can read all the stories about group think but I better have a plan for myself. I learned a lot of this back in the Civil Rights era from the 1968 Poor Peoples March. Lots of folks went and heard some great speeches and got really pumped up but a year later for most their economic situation was still the same good or bad. For some it became a not me I better start making some decisions so it doesn't become me down the road. In short just to use some round numbers. If in September of 2007 a person had $100,000 dollars invested and in March of 2009 that had fallen to $50,000 they could had the following choices amongst others:
A. Whine and Moan
B. Complain and blame someone
C. Do and say nothing
D. say something and develop a plan for the 50K they had left
We are now four years later and counting.
Yes I am well aware of and have participated in many forum discussions over those four plus years( more earlier on) but I also knew as I did back in 1968 that group speak aside I needed a personal plan and strategy to move forward.
That does not apply to a macro economy. Everyone cannot buy beach houses for half price because if everyone could it would not be half price anymore. Its the ole standing up in a movie theater fallacy. Only non zero sum economic principles help in the aggregate, technology, education, efficiency, not buying beach houses....
Try the Bolsheviks if you think public opinion doesn't matter. We are lucky that there was still enough equity left to run the system. We may not be so lucky every time.
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