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The time to start worrying about huge increases in the national debt was during the Bush Administration, when massive tax cuts combined with runaway military spending critically undermined the US economy. Under the 1st 4 years of GW Bush, the deficit increased from 144.5 billion to 605 billion, a quadrupling, not just a doubling of it, as the OP attributes to Obama. By the time he left office, it was at 962 billion.
The Bush admin's own Economic Advisement Council opposed the Bush tax cuts, which, together with increased spending to cover the Iraq war, caused the deficit to spiral out of control.
10 Nobel laureates sent a statement to Bush saying ... "these tax cuts will worsen the long-term budge outlook...will redue the capacity of government to finance Social Security and Medicare benefits as well as investment in schools, health, infrastructure and basic research...and generate further inequalities in after tax income." G.W. Bush: author of America's economic demise.
There is a good reason he was not present at the Republican convention this year. Despite the rhetoric on Texas billboards, even Republicans don't miss him.
Many ways to do the accounting but some are higher...
'What did the CBO find? As you can see from the table below, the true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion.'
there's many ways for the media to do the accounting, but only one way for the government to do it.
say whatever you'd like. i don't see how you get $2.527T over 10 years. The spending is done...i can see adding debt servicing, but where do you get the $2.527T number? hogwash.
It's just incredible that, after four years of Trillion Dollar Obama Budgets, people are still blaming Bush. WTF? Did Obama just spend the past near-four years campaigning for re-election? At what point in time does he take responsibility? Give me Mickey Mouse the next four years over The Blame-Shifter-in-Chief.
It's just incredible that, after four years of Trillion Dollar Obama Budgets, people are still blaming Bush. WTF? Did Obama just spend the past near-four years campaigning for re-election? At what point in time does he take responsibility? Give me Mickey Mouse the next four years over The Blame-Shifter-in-Chief.
Probably because of the title of the thread and the ignorance of so many of the posters. Biggest deficit ever? Bush's budget. That's not blaming Bush unfairly, it was his budget and his right to fame. Obama reduced the deficit Bush handed him, if not by very much. He moved in the right direction, if not by much. I'd love to see a fiscally responsible party come to power, but I see no signs that one exists. R doesn't stand for responsible. Romney's plan for fiscal responsible is to cut taxes, increase spending on the military, education, create 12 million jobs, repealing Obamacare with Romneycare he knows so little about his staff has to follow him around correcting his mistakes. (No, Romney, it won't actually cover pre-existing conditions like you said. That's the Romneycare bill in MA that you're a big supporter of but on the national platform that's a no-no. Stop saying that. No, Romney, it won't actually keep students on their parents healthcare plans longer. That's MA Romneycare that you're a big fan of. On the national platform, that's a no-no we don't like and is Obamacare).
Obama has plenty to be blamed for as well. If you think Romney will do better promoting is own version of Romneycare that's pretty much identical to Obamacare since he can't keep Romneycare MA and Romneycare America distinguished, vote for him. If you think he can actually create 12 million jobs in America while cutting taxes for everyone* by 20%, increasing spending, and reducing the deficit -- vote for him. Romney is living in lala land telling all the too stupid to think for themselves what they want to hear. If you want real numbers, look at Ryan.
Ryan: 20% cut in non-military discretionary spending and 28 years to balance the budget.
Romney: 5% cut in non-military discretionary spending and 8-10 years to balance the budget while cutting taxes by 20% for everyone*.
I get that 5% and 8-10 years (along with 12 million jobs, and increased spending especially on education, and lower taxes for everyone by 20% --except high-income individuals who he will now not be cutting taxes) is more palatable than 20% cuts and 28 years and no tax relief and no vague promise of 12 million jobs. One is reality; the other for the too stupid to think for themselves. It's Romney doing what Romney does best, saying whatever will get him votes. The only possible way Romney's budget works is by massively devaluing the dollar such that incomes growth by somewhere around 50% in nominal dollars over the next eight years. If that's one you want because you just hate Obama... by all means, vote for Romney. Where I sit, Romney either makes no sense or is a far worse for more fiscally irresponsible candidate. What disturbs me is I have no idea which. Romney is just that good at getting up and spewing different versions of nonsense I have no idea what his actual policy ideas are or if he even has any. I won't vote for the Mickey Mouse. I'll probably vote 3rd party since I live in California and it doesn't matter since Obama will win here anyway.
Dick Cheney said to Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill: "You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due."
Japan has also proven that deficits don't matter. Obama is also proving that deficits don't matter. When you have your own central bank, deficits don't matter. They allow you manipulate currency like China is doing. We are in a currency war. Lower currency means more exports & less imports.
Romney should look at Bush II's legacy if he wants to see his own legacy in the history books, since he'll be doing exactly what Bush II did.
But then it won't bother him, just like it doesn't bother Bush, because he will have done the only thing that really matters to him---fulfilling the prophecy that one day a Mormon would be elected President. That's all he lives for.
It's just incredible that, after four years of Trillion Dollar Obama Budgets, people are still blaming Bush. WTF? Did Obama just spend the past near-four years campaigning for re-election? At what point in time does he take responsibility? Give me Mickey Mouse the next four years over The Blame-Shifter-in-Chief.
I have no intention of defending bad behavior by any politician. But, if you cannot take into account the two wars and deep economic trouble this country was in when Obama took office you are just being disingenuous. Contrast that with zero wars and a balanced budget, that Bush II faced when taking office, and you may begin to get the picture. Unless, you are just one of those people to whom facts and rational discourse are irrelevant. 9/11 did not even take place for 18 months into the Bush term and he had already acquired 1.5 trillion in debt-a 37% increase. By contrast and facing a much more difficult economic environment, Obama added around 20% to the deficit in his first 18 months.
"In June 2012, CBO summarized the cause of change between its January 2001 estimate of a $5.6 trillion cumulative surplus between 2002 and 2011 and the actual $6.1 trillion cumulative deficit that occurred, an unfavorable "turnaround" or debt increase of $11.7 trillion. Tax cuts and slower-than-expected growth reduced revenues by $6.1 trillion and spending was $5.6 trillion higher. Of this total, the CBO attributes 72% to legislated tax cuts and spending increases and 27% to economic and technical factors. Of the latter, 56% occurred from 2009 to 2011."
The difference between the projected and actual debt in 2011 can be largely attributed to:
$3.5 trillion – Economic changes (including lower than expected tax revenues and higher safety net spending due to recession)
$1.6 trillion – Bush Tax Cuts (EGTRRA and JGTRRA), primarily tax cuts but also some smaller spending increases
$1.4 trillion - Incremental interest due to higher debt balances
$0.9 trillion - Obama stimulus and tax cuts (ARRA and Tax Act of 2010)
I do not care personally for either Romney or Obama, but anyone who is paying attention to how Romney claims he will fix the economy should be VERY concerned. The economy may well be at a tipping point and all analysts say his economic plan is pure BS and will actually increase the deficit substantially.
Last edited by shaker281; 10-29-2012 at 04:36 AM..
I am not being disingenuous; just listening to what business leaders have to say. They are NOT hiring precisely because they FEAR what The-Great-Socialist-in-Chief will spring on them next if re-elected.
I never voted for Bush II in any election. If I could, I would vote for Bill Clinton as next president. He did balance the budget and did compromise with the other side of the aisle. This is something Obama promised, but then he went out and became the MOST DIVISIVE president in my lifetime. I am tired of the teleprompter reading, smirky asides, snide remarks, finger wagging, ... the guy got to where he is by Affirmative Action and does not have the cred to do the job.
I have never been a fan of Romney, but I will take him over Obama any day now. I was listening to a debate the other day between economists backing each of these two and the Obamites kept railing on and on about the UNFAIR distribution of income in America. Well, we all know what the solution is, right? RE-DISTRIBUTION of income, and THAT is SOCIALISM. You want socialism? Please move to North Korea and leave U.S. alone. American entrepreneurs lead the world in innovation and creation and socialism seeks to kill entrepreneurism. As one wag put it: How can someone LOVE jobs, but HATE job-creators??
I am in business, do business, have for years and have no FEAR, as you say, what-so-ever, of what Obama may or may not do.
The only folks risking running US into the ground at this point are the Tea Party idiots.
Trust me, business folks know full well how to work around taxes, just fine, thank you all the same.
That is why the typical Joe Six Pack has a higher percentage of his earned income taxed off (and will continue to) than Romney, me, or anyone else who knows how to do the numbers.
I am not being disingenuous; just listening to what business leaders have to say. They are NOT hiring precisely because they FEAR what The-Great-Socialist-in-Chief will spring on them next if re-elected.
I never voted for Bush II in any election. If I could, I would vote for Bill Clinton as next president. He did balance the budget and did compromise with the other side of the aisle. This is something Obama promised, but then he went out and became the MOST DIVISIVE president in my lifetime. I am tired of the teleprompter reading, smirky asides, snide remarks, finger wagging, ... the guy got to where he is by Affirmative Action and does not have the cred to do the job.
I have never been a fan of Romney, but I will take him over Obama any day now. I was listening to a debate the other day between economists backing each of these two and the Obamites kept railing on and on about the UNFAIR distribution of income in America. Well, we all know what the solution is, right? RE-DISTRIBUTION of income, and THAT is SOCIALISM. You want socialism? Please move to North Korea and leave U.S. alone. American entrepreneurs lead the world in innovation and creation and socialism seeks to kill entrepreneurism. As one wag put it: How can someone LOVE jobs, but HATE job-creators??
I'm with Philip on this one (the part in red).
I agree with you on Bill Clinton.
Politicians say what they say to get elected. What they do and what they say are two different things. Why so many far left liberals are disillusioned with Obama. But, much of the far right wing criticism is just as ridiculous. Still, tax policies that continue to shift wealth disproportionately to a very small segment of society are not healthy or sustainable either. The numbers speak for themselves. When do we address this issue? When the the top 5% have 98% of all the wealth in the country? Is this not redistribution of wealth? The rich do indeed get richer. Will you or your children be one of them?
This sounds like political rhetoric to me, but I am always willing to entertain facts. Tell me what Obama policies are killing entrepreneurs, be specific. I'd like to understand. All the claims he would raise taxes have proven false. Legislation that hurts job creation? Even Obamacare has had a positive influence on the health care industry in many regards.
I support neither Obama nor Romney, but I do embrace facts over rhetoric.
Is Romney a "job-creator" or a guy who gets wealthy shuffling the deck and walks away with the profits? His record on job creation is abysmal, as governor his state was 47th out of 50 for job creation.
To be clear, Bain Capital takes credit for other healthy companies growing (Staples, Sports Authority) by investing in them for profit. Bain capital takes credit for every job that any company they invested, even a small percentage into, ever produced. Pretty exaggerated claims if you ask me. I guess I am responsible for thousands of jobs too, based on my investment in GE, HD, WMT, T...
"Bain Capital probably had something to do with the early success of Staples, but there were a lot of things that happened along the way that helped Staples grow that Bain had nothing to do with."
Last edited by shaker281; 11-01-2012 at 01:22 AM..
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