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That is the largest percentage since the great depression. How do you think that will effect the mindset of those children’s generation as they mature and become adults.
The fact that they can only send/receive 25 text messages per month instead of having unlimited texting is obviously traumatic and will scar them for life.
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Originally Posted by Mathguy
Absolutely. There is no reason to get married because then you lose all that government aid.
That is how the Democrat's Grotesque Society destroyed the Black Family.
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Originally Posted by Mathguy
Changing marital demographics is likely one of the biggest factors in this.
A few changes in the tax code and amendments to existing welfare laws would go a long way to help, but then that would destroy the Democrat's voting base.
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Originally Posted by nightbird47
Consider the unemployment stats.
Why?
In the 1970s, before the recession, you had 5% unemployment and only 13% of households with more than 2 wage-earners.
A couple of years ago before the recession, you had 5% unemployment and 67% of households had 2 wage-earners.
So what's your point?
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Originally Posted by nightbird47
Consider the forclosure stats.
Okay.
My conclusion is that many Americans are financially irresponsible and have a Financial IQ of Zero.
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Originally Posted by nightbird47
I had a huge crash in my life, and the most lasting thing which will never go away is that I will never trust in the future, and I will never expect things to not change. Once you learn that life can change in an instant, you never see it the same again.
Okay.
I'm of the opinion that learning is exponentially related to the intensity of suffering. The more someone suffers, the more they learn.
You have two entire generations, actually three, that have never known deprivation. They need to experience it in order to move on.
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Originally Posted by madpaddy
While I have no doubt that many more families with children are strugling since the recession, I question whether 25% of all American kids are actually living a life of poverty as opposed to being the children of parents who's taxable income is currently below the arbitrary demarcation of poverty. Those are two different things.
If a family's 1040 return shows the household below the poverty benchmark but there is government and/or extended family assistance with food, housing, and/or medical care or other unreported income coming in it is possible the kids are having their basic needs met which would mean those children are not actually living a life of poverty. I wonder how many of those 25% fit that description.
Those are most excellent issues.
The percentage is drawn from the reported income and is a grotesque lie.
What is not included is non-cash payments. Based on the 2009 Guidelines, it's $18,310 for a family of three. Not included is the $400/month in food stamps. That takes someone from $18,310 to $23,110. It doesn't include the $175/month per child in WIC benefits if applicable. It doesn't include what the tax-payers are paying the landord in HUD subsidies. It doesn't include Medicaid. It doesn't include the $275/month per child in ADC cash payments (it's non-taxable like SSI/SSDI).
Start adding that stuff in and you see they're real income is greater than $30,000 per year.
When I was a census enumerator and worked for several weeks exclusively in "the projects" I discovered that nearly all of the single women with children living on the dole at tax-payer expense also had a man who had a good paying job living with them. His income is not included, and it is a lie and distortion of the facts not to include it.
It's the ideal situation. Heck, making $10/hour that's a disposable income of $1300+ per month.
Now, someone ask a really stupid question like, "Why do I see Cadillac Escalade SUVs, Hummers, BMWs, Mercedes and Lincoln Navigators sitting out in front of welfare housing all the time?"
Well, gosh, if I had $1300 in disposable income every month I could probably afford a $60,000 automobile too.
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Originally Posted by newenglandgirl
Was this the CBS special last week on how many kids are homeless and living in motels with their families, in one or two rooms? I was tremendously impressed with the kids interviewed but I know that most are not faring so well mentally. They are doing poorly in schools. My heart goes out to them.
Living in motels? See how stupid they are? Maybe they're experiencing cable/satellite withdrawal symptoms.
They could rent a 3 bedroom apartment with another family. The adult couples get the two bedrooms and the kids get bunked in the 3rd.
Immigrants do that. A 3 bedroom apartment? Hell, there'd be three (or more) immigrant families in their not 2.
You want me to feel sorry for them? And then do what, give them more tax-payer money to throw away?
There's what 43 Million households on food stamps? And how many of those households have cable? Internet? Satellite? Cell-phones?
1 is too many.
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Originally Posted by newenglandgirl
Poverty is poverty, people in it know who they are.
There's no poverty in the US. You want to see poverty? I'll take you on the Poverty World Tour. We'll go to Eastern Europe first.
You'll see real poverty that will make you puke and give you nightmares the rest of your life. And then if you can hack it, we'll go to South America, Africa and Asia to see more real poverty.
There's no poverty in the US. You want to see poverty? I'll take you on the Poverty World Tour. We'll go to Eastern Europe first.
You'll see real poverty that will make you puke and give you nightmares the rest of your life. And then if you can hack it, we'll go to South America, Africa and Asia to see more real poverty.
I do not dispute what you say here. Poverty is relative, however. Dire poverty can be found around the world, including, historically, in the U.S., causes notwithstanding. I agree about the welfare ripoff, etc. But we are talking here about a drastic FALL from a once middle class life. We are talking about fathers and mothers who once had jobs, who could pay for their family's roof over their heads. On unemployment, you probably get half. When unemployment runs out, you get nothing.
[Just a few years ago (2006), 43% of "poor" families in Am erica owned their own homes. They were house-rich and income-poor (many had jobs, too). Now we are seeing a much different profile of families having lost their jobs, their homes, and even though the kids may have ipods these were a one-time purchase probably bought in better times. Maybe they will be selling them for food. Also now, subsidies like food stamps and good old 'rent assistance' and 'welfare' are not so readily available to this new wave/profile of 'poor families'.]
These families living in motels are not paying the going rate. They are being aided, or subsidized, by social agencies of some kind b/c it's more doable than renting an apt. from some landlord. Do I like or approve of this situation as a taxpayer? Of course not. Would you rather see whole families begging on the streets?
Regardless of how you judge the parents, the rate of hungry and homeless kids is growing in the U.S. It is the well hidden backside of the "front" of your wildly successful capitalism. The media, historically, does not report on this downside. But now things may be getting bad enough where there's no hiding it anymore. I'm glad that you and others who do not experience hunger or homelessness do not have to.
Last edited by RiverBird; 03-08-2011 at 07:00 AM..
the rate of hungry and homeless kids is growing in the U.S.
How do you measure how many kids are hungry well enough to claim it is growing?
And please don't link to an organization who's very existence and payroll depends on there being a problem to tackle. That is what has led to statistics with phrases like "food insecure" being thrown about that make the country sound like mid-80s Ethiopia.
It is also important to bear in mind the difference between "poverty" (defined level of economic hardship, owned stuff notwithstanding) and "destitution."
The economic landscape is changing, perhaps now just slowly, but surely. Wht is now a smaller percentage could become a much larger one, depending on economic policies (ha) that are geared toward job creation and retraining in tech fields. To pull people out of varying degrees of poverty in the U.S. is going to require (1) recognition, (2) will, (3) thought, and (4) policies in action (in that order). As I've said before, we can't seem to get past #1 and 2.
Let's check back in on this in a year. Those who have lost their jobs and homes will be added to the statistics, accurately reported or un(der)reported, and those who still have their jobs and their homes will be crying foul at any real reports.
Was this the CBS special last week on how many kids are homeless and living in motels with their families, in one or two rooms? I was tremendously impressed with the kids interviewed but I know that most are not faring so well mentally. They are doing poorly in schools. My heart goes out to them.
Yes it was. Do you feel that growing up under these circumstances and as some of the children said; growing up quickly will tend to make our society more conservative going forward?
That seems to be the case during the great depression, children who were born of parents who partied thru the roaring 20's and who's leveraging into stocks and real estate helped bring on the depression, developed into a more responsible and conservative generation of the 40's and 50's.
The fact that they can only send/receive 25 text messages per month instead of having unlimited texting is obviously traumatic and will scar them for life.
That is how the Democrat's Grotesque Society destroyed the Black Family.
A few changes in the tax code and amendments to existing welfare laws would go a long way to help, but then that would destroy the Democrat's voting base.
Why?
In the 1970s, before the recession, you had 5% unemployment and only 13% of households with more than 2 wage-earners.
A couple of years ago before the recession, you had 5% unemployment and 67% of households had 2 wage-earners.
So what's your point?
Okay.
My conclusion is that many Americans are financially irresponsible and have a Financial IQ of Zero.
Okay.
I'm of the opinion that learning is exponentially related to the intensity of suffering. The more someone suffers, the more they learn.
You have two entire generations, actually three, that have never known deprivation. They need to experience it in order to move on.
Those are most excellent issues.
The percentage is drawn from the reported income and is a grotesque lie.
What is not included is non-cash payments. Based on the 2009 Guidelines, it's $18,310 for a family of three. Not included is the $400/month in food stamps. That takes someone from $18,310 to $23,110. It doesn't include the $175/month per child in WIC benefits if applicable. It doesn't include what the tax-payers are paying the landord in HUD subsidies. It doesn't include Medicaid. It doesn't include the $275/month per child in ADC cash payments (it's non-taxable like SSI/SSDI).
Start adding that stuff in and you see they're real income is greater than $30,000 per year.
When I was a census enumerator and worked for several weeks exclusively in "the projects" I discovered that nearly all of the single women with children living on the dole at tax-payer expense also had a man who had a good paying job living with them. His income is not included, and it is a lie and distortion of the facts not to include it.
It's the ideal situation. Heck, making $10/hour that's a disposable income of $1300+ per month.
Now, someone ask a really stupid question like, "Why do I see Cadillac Escalade SUVs, Hummers, BMWs, Mercedes and Lincoln Navigators sitting out in front of welfare housing all the time?"
Well, gosh, if I had $1300 in disposable income every month I could probably afford a $60,000 automobile too.
Living in motels? See how stupid they are? Maybe they're experiencing cable/satellite withdrawal symptoms.
They could rent a 3 bedroom apartment with another family. The adult couples get the two bedrooms and the kids get bunked in the 3rd.
Immigrants do that. A 3 bedroom apartment? Hell, there'd be three (or more) immigrant families in their not 2.
You want me to feel sorry for them? And then do what, give them more tax-payer money to throw away?
There's what 43 Million households on food stamps? And how many of those households have cable? Internet? Satellite? Cell-phones?
1 is too many.
There's no poverty in the US. You want to see poverty? I'll take you on the Poverty World Tour. We'll go to Eastern Europe first.
You'll see real poverty that will make you puke and give you nightmares the rest of your life. And then if you can hack it, we'll go to South America, Africa and Asia to see more real poverty.
It's true that the definition of "poverty" is rather fluid, and therefore, it is impossible to track poverty from one era to another.
However, it is true that people at low income levels actually are excluded from even the most fundamental level of sustenance and dignity, by standards imposed by the affluent.
For example, the cost of public transportation has risen to artificially high levels, so the well-to-do can feel good about the pretty buses in their town, even though they never ride them themselves. Housing is artificially high, because of zoning laws and building codes, that force poor people to live in housing that can no longer be created at an affordable cost. While remaining low cost housing is gentrified beyond affordability. Food costs are forced upward by FDA regulations and stringent health considerations, as well as and unwillingness to place out food that does not meet cosmetic minimums.
At the oft-cited Mexiican income of a dollar an hour or whatever it is, Mexican families can live quite nicely on that, when housing, transportation and food does not need to meet American Yuppie-enforced standards.
So, Yes, for an American below the "poverty line", it is very hard to make it when minimum legal housing is $500 a month, a bus trip costs 3 or 4 bucks round trip to the nearest store, and half the nation's food production is thrown out as being "inedible", while it is still perfectly safe and nutritious, and potentially cheap, and gets discarded rather than distributed.
The poor in America must live as though they are rich, and find a way to afford it, because the rich don't want to drive past neighborhoods where people live as if they are poor. So the rich force the poor to live as though they were rich, but then refuse to allow enough wealth to be distributed to the poor to afford it.
For example, the cost of public transportation has risen to artificially high levels, so the well-to-do can feel good about the pretty buses in their town, even though they never ride them themselves..
If you had to guess, what percentage of families classified as "poverty" own a car?
I watched the 60 minutes special on Sunday on poverty and for anyone who has something resembling a heart and is not brain-dead its very disturbing. Here are a few facts for those who care:
1. Virtually every child featured on the special lived with two parents;
2. Virtually every child featured was articulate and obviously came from a home where education was valued;
3. It involved children of every race;
4. Many of the children had lived in very middle class homes until a misfortune hit their family. The primary misfortune was job loss in a bad economy;
5. Many of the parents hunted literally day and night for a job to replace the one they had lost;
6. These people were not "lay-abouts", drug addicts, or ne'er-do-wells. They were people suffering because of a severe recession.
7. We aren't talking about "doing without an IPOD", over half the children said they had gone to bed hungry on more than one occasion. Its a real eye-opener to hear a 12 year old child in America describe being so hungry they can't sleep at night.
I am generally proud to be an American. I think our country has done some great things. This country has been good to me. Having said that, to hear that story on Sixty Minutes just made me sick to my stomach.
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