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Please people, I see both sides. All CaptainNJ is saying is that it is a legitimate business. I am a dog owner, and my dog was an adopted stray. My family volunteers at the local Humane Society so I understand the plight of homeless dogs.
There will be no breeders if there is no one who will buy. The case should be presented to the people who create the demand, and not the people providing the supply. People will not be purveying porn if there are no buyers of porn. Same with drugs and same with cigarettes. Strengthen the grass roots movements to reduce the demand. No one is saying that an animal is merely relegated to that of a commodity, but the concepts of economics are simply impossible to change. Supply follows demand.
SO I'm still waiting for pictures folks .... the store employees who posted arent showing them either .. GC should also do a spread to prove story truths .. untill then........
no captain ... you are wrong ..... and i have defended in these threads your choice to buy your beautiful girl from a breeder.......
you always seem to be defensive about this choice you made.....
do you ever volunteer to help dogs or cats or other animals less fortunate than yours??
a lot of us DO..... and that is why we post what we do.......
Some people just lack compassion and this is the huge problem for all the suffering animals!
It is sad to say that there are more people lacking it than having it!
The people lacking compassion are the ones that think all us rescuers and people who help an unfortunate animal in any way are wackos.
It is the opposite! Compassion comes from the heart, not the mind!
so that beautiful, living, breathing, feeling girl you researched so carefully and spent so much money for is still just a product to you?? no different than a television, car, shirt or bottle of your favorite beverage??
wow.....
we cant really treat them the same as people, they dont think like people, cant get jobs, build a home, follow laws, etc.
my dog is a product to me. to say she is no different than a television, car, shirt isnt accurate. i value things that i own differently, and my dog is much more valuable to me than anything else i own. but ultimately, she cant survive in society on her own so she needs to be viewed as a product.
Sorry - can't agree with you. It is not unreasonable to take a stand against profit made from the misery of dogs.
i dont expect any of the shelter obsessed folk to agree with me. they have made up their mind that purchasing a dog is evil. like i said before, its an irrational ideology which defies logic. its like trying to change someones religion.
Please people, I see both sides. All CaptainNJ is saying is that it is a legitimate business. I am a dog owner, and my dog was an adopted stray. My family volunteers at the local Humane Society so I understand the plight of homeless dogs.
There will be no breeders if there is no one who will buy. The case should be presented to the people who create the demand, and not the people providing the supply. People will not be purveying porn if there are no buyers of porn. Same with drugs and same with cigarettes. Strengthen the grass roots movements to reduce the demand. No one is saying that an animal is merely relegated to that of a commodity, but the concepts of economics are simply impossible to change. Supply follows demand.
no offense, and i totally see what you're saying, but the captain & i have had a similar debate before and he does indeed see animals as commodities and doesn't care at all about the suffering and deaths of animals who are not his own.
i do think he loves his dog, but he simply thinks that the homeless animal problem in this country is not important and that there's no reason for anyone to do anything to lower the rate of animal homelessness except to make themselves feel like "heroes".
i think ethical is the wrong word choice. it is implying there is something unethical about buying a puppy. there is absolutely nothing unethical about finding something you like and buying it. your word choice is just a way of trying to make it sound like its a bad thing to buy a puppy and adopting is "saving a life." both are equal, you are buying a pet. its not our responsibility to save dog lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
im not an idealist. its really convenient to take these idealist positions and sound like you are a great and caring person. so now the person taking the opposite view looks cold and heartless. i dont really see you as any more caring about animals than me. i am the realist. animals are going to die in shelters, thats reality. we shouldnt have to alter our preferences because of this reality.
captain, i think i'm representing your views fairly; correct me if i'm wrong.
i dont expect any of the shelter obsessed folk to agree with me. they have made up their mind that purchasing a dog is evil. like i said before, its an irrational ideology which defies logic. its like trying to change someones religion.
There is way too much breeding going on. Whether it be backyard breeding or showdog breeding. This is the root of the problem as to the overpopulation of animals sitting in shelters with not enough homes available to them. Purchasing a pet from any breeder is contributing to the breeding process.
Thousands of wonderful pets face the needle or gas chamber everyday due to someone buying from a breeder.
If research is done, people can find their favorite breed thru Petfinder or a shelter somewhere. All it takes is putting your name on a list with them.
Please people, I see both sides. All CaptainNJ is saying is that it is a legitimate business. I am a dog owner, and my dog was an adopted stray. My family volunteers at the local Humane Society so I understand the plight of homeless dogs.
There will be no breeders if there is no one who will buy. The case should be presented to the people who create the demand, and not the people providing the supply. People will not be purveying porn if there are no buyers of porn. Same with drugs and same with cigarettes. Strengthen the grass roots movements to reduce the demand. No one is saying that an animal is merely relegated to that of a commodity, but the concepts of economics are simply impossible to change. Supply follows demand.
you are ABSOLUTELY correct..... and THAT is what those who promote adoption over purchasing from dubious sources are getting at.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ
we cant really treat them the same as people, they dont think like people, cant get jobs, build a home, follow laws, etc.
my dog is a product to me. to say she is no different than a television, car, shirt isnt accurate. i value things that i own differently, and my dog is much more valuable to me than anything else i own. but ultimately, she cant survive in society on her own so she needs to be viewed as a product.
although many say that their dog is a part of their family, no one in the time i have been reading these message boards has EVER said that dogs were to be treated the same as people.... but by the same token, they are living, feeling, thinking beings who experience happiness, sadness, anger, loyalty, confusion......
come on .... a product is a product is a product..... and by your reasoning...... a significantly mentally or physically challenged HUMAN, or even an infant human could or should be considered a product..... .... sure hope for your sake that your kids or spouse don't share that attitude if the time comes that you are unable to care for yourself.......
no offense, and i totally see what you're saying, but the captain & i have had a similar debate before and he does indeed see animals as commodities and doesn't care at all about the suffering and deaths of animals who are not his own.
i do think he loves his dog, but he simply thinks that the homeless animal problem in this country is not important and that there's no reason for anyone to do anything to lower the rate of animal homelessness except to make themselves feel like "heroes".
captain, i think i'm representing your views fairly; correct me if i'm wrong.
its basically an accurate assessment. i wouldnt say 100% that i dont care about the suffering. however, i think it has to be seen as an unfortunately reality rather than a reason why buying a puppy is evil. people should have the right to choose whatever kind of dog they want. its a huge commitment and i want people to be able to get exactly what they want for the 10-15 years or so they expect to own the dog. i wish all the dogs could live out their lives in happy homes but thats not reality. you cant put the dog's preference over the people's preference though, its a human's world after all.
come on .... a product is a product is a product..... and by your reasoning...... a significantly mentally or physically challenged HUMAN, or even an infant human could or should be considered a product..... .... sure hope for your sake that your kids or spouse don't share that attitude if the time comes that you are unable to care for yourself.......
please do not portray my beliefs as if i am likening dogs to humans (not even retarded or otherwise handicapped humans). i think i am making it very clear that humans have to be considered higher up on the food chain than dogs.
of course, my dog is more valuable than most humans but thats for me to think that way, i dont expect society to protect my dog above humans.
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