Nasal cancer (tumors, clean, poop, vet)

[mrs1885]

I haven't read through all 155 pages (wow) but wanted to ask a couple questions of those of you that have been through this.

Butchie, or BooBoo as I call him, is a 12 year old chihuahua. He has a bone degenerative disease that's cause the front half of his bottom jaw to slowly erode. He's got wicked allergies, both skin and respiratory, so he's on heavy doses of medicine for that as well as baths every three or four days. The poor guy has just had one problem after another.

Five or six months ago I noticed his reverse sneezing / collapsing trachea was getting worse. I never saw him sneeze and have a bloody nose, but we have found some blood in the blankets in his dog bed that he and his two 'sisters' sleep in. With the snuffling from the reverse sneeze and the allergies it's quite possible he sneezed and lost blood. We never saw any on him, but if he has a sore or anything the girls are relentless licking at it, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was blood on his muzzle that they licked off, so the only evidence was on the blankets. Because it was never a bunch and they didn't seem hurt in any way I didn't think much of it.

Tonight when I was on the couch with the five other chis and the pittie, he came out to the living room and wanted up with us. This is VERY rare for him. He lives in his little bed, buried under his blankies and only comes out when he needs to go outside to potty or get a drink or his food. Again, I didn't think much of it and put him up here with us. At one point he turned around to bite at his back leg that was itching him again - time for more meds - and I noticed a lump on his nose. It sits just behind the fleshy part of the nose on his muzzle, right on top. My first thought was his bone disease, but that breaks down the bone, it doesn't build it up. The more I thought about it the more odd it seemed to me, so I started doing a web search and nasal cancer came up a lot.

I'll be making an appointment with the vet of course, but in the meantime, can anyone tell me if this sounds at all like anything any of you have been through? Could this be the cause of the lump do you think?

[Hardee's mom - Jen]

Hi mrs1885,
I'm sorry you had to find us here to ask this question. Let me preface this response with the fact that you should see a vet, which I know you have planned to do, and only they can give you a definitive diagnosis. Also, just because your symptoms match some of ours does not mean that it is nasal cancer. It could be something benign. That said, I know there are others here that have had lumps on the muzzle, but we did not. I did have the blood spots (very light tinged blood spots that became gradually darker) that you are describing though on my bedding and Hardee's crate mat, though we did not know where the blood came from on Hardee. It took years of going from vet to vet and being dismissed, to finally reaching our diagnosis.

Little BooBoo has a wonderful Mom in you, and he is so lucky to be so wonderfully cared for. Please let us know what you find out. Hardee and I will keep our fingers and paws crossed here for the best news possible. Wishing you all the best.
Jen

[Tacos_Mommy]

hi guys!! @mrs1885, i am so sorry to hear all the troubles with Booboo i recieve a newsletter from a website called ask ariel.. it belongs to a lady who practices holistic pet care but she also works with a vetrinarian.. I know she has a whole section on her site dedicated to doggy cancer and she offers cancer supplement pakages! i think it may be worth checking out?? there are many success stories and testimonials.. Canine and Feline Cancer--Homemade Pet Cancer Diet (http://askariel.com/pages.asp?pid=cancer - broken link) hope this helps!

[Jessiegee40]

Originally Posted by Tacos_Mommy

hi guys!! @mrs1885, i am so sorry to hear all the troubles with Booboo i recieve a newsletter from a website called ask ariel.. it belongs to a lady who practices holistic pet care but she also works with a vetrinarian.. I know she has a whole section on her site dedicated to doggy cancer and she offers cancer supplement pakages! i think it may be worth checking out?? there are many success stories and testimonials.. Canine and Feline Cancer--Homemade Pet Cancer Diet (http://askariel.com/pages.asp?pid=cancer - broken link) hope this helps!

Tacos_Mommy.....Do you work for askariel??? You have posted the same advice in 10 threads here. Guess you REALLY like that site.

[charlies_mom]

Hi,
I'm Charlie's mom. He is a golden/aussie mix and is 11 yrs old. He was diagnosed with nasal adenocarcinoma a couple of weeks ago. My vet said that the radiation and chemo treatments are very hard on dogs and he would recommend against it.

Charlie is is good health, but his sneezing is increasing some and it sounds like there is something bothering his sinuses (do dogs have sinuses?) or throat.

He is on 10mg prednisone and antibiotics. Are there any new treatmets out there? Is my vet wrong or right?

I just don't want my little guy to suffer.

[My_Sophicles]

Hey everyone! I've been offline for a few days. Tore a muscle in my back, and with these pain meds the doctor put me on, its been a mostly sleepy recovery! I'm sorry to see there are new humans and dogs here and more possible nasal cancer diagnoses. Ugh, its such a terrible type of cancer.

Mrs1885: I know this isn't definitive, but that is exactly what happened with my pooch. She had one bloody nose and then nothing, for three months - totally normal, happy dog. Then one weekend she started acting strange, not her usual self at all. And then basically overnight the lump appeared. It was just behind the fleshy part of her black nose, on top of the muzzle and slightly off center. That being said, it could be an abscess due to the bone disease or something not cancerous. The only way to find out is to do a biopsy. A specialty vet tried a fine needle biopsy through the muzzle into the lump after trying a "up the nose" rhinotomy biopsy. But both time we just got "inflammation." A false negative on a nasal cancer biopsy is very probable because of the structure of the nose and mucoid tissue up there. I would say get thee to a vet and have it looked at. Sometimes they can confirm the mass - and 80% of them are malignant. So even if you decide against treatment, you at least know what it is.

Charlies_mom - If you would have asked me two weeks ago, I would have told you I completely regret putting her through the radiation. Now that the worst side effect has passed - which was radiation burns on her mouth causing her pain upon eating and eventually an infection (which thankfully cleared right up with a course of antibiotics) - I now say I'm very pleased I did the radiation. But for about 5 days I hated myself for putting her through this. She just went limp one night and went to the doggie ER. As it turned out all her blood work was good and she was back to wagging her tail in 12 hours after antibiotics. But it was a HARD few days with the mouth sores.

My dog is 11 years old as well. A couple days ago she started getting some radiation burns, like little dots of fur falling off and some burning in the corner of her nose. It doesn't cause her pain but I can tell it itches like crazy. I had to put her in a giant cone (so she can't poke her nose out and scratch it on something) but otherwise she's a happy little thing. Yesterday we played fetch - or rather she played fetch with herself - tossing a ball around in the air and catching it and trying to pick it up with the cone on. It was hysterically funny. She wagged her tail and didn't seem to mind that I was making fun of her. Haha.

Today she realized she is STILL in the cone, and is grumpy about that. But another 5-7 days and this side effect will have passed too and we can move on. Here's a picture of her I took last night. My cell camera always turns her eyes green and now that she's post radiation - I find that extra funny. You can see the moistness and ooze a bit on her left side (where the fur is darker), the scar between her eyes from her diagnostic tumor debulking surgery, and a raw spot on the left corner of her nose...but all in all, she doesn't look THAT bad.




Hardee's Mom, Jen, who posted above had cyberknife radiation therapy which was only 3 treatments and no side effects. Sof dog had 20 total treatments in a linear accelerator machine, Monday through Friday for month. It was more exhausting for me than for her I think. She seemed to enjoy the company of the techs, but she slept a lot during that month due to the anesthesia effects. The dog that started this thread (Dash) had a palliative protocol of 5 sessions. Other palliative protocols can be 4-5 higher dose treatments over many weeks.

Upon my dog's final exam, the doctor said he got a major whiff of the telltale smell of nasal tumor death. And her nasal passages and frontal sinus were totally clear. How long the remission lasts is anyone's guess. But honestly, at her age, even if its 6 months to a year - its worth it. But at this point I think we're done with treatments. I want to get her to full recovery and then just live out what is left to the best of her ability. She and I have both hit our upper limit. I'm glad we did it, but I just don't want to do anymore. She doesn't act geriatric but she is not a young dog. If we can achieve a solid remission with few symptoms or late side effects and have good quality of life, even if its for too short a period, we'll have done our job.

There have been reports good tumor shrinkage with chemo (see Hardee above!) And while it wasn't presented to me as part of the standard treatment protocol, others on this thread I believe have used it for palliative care and symptom control as well.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide. We can tell you what to expect hopefully. And talk you through this. Its not easy.

Jen - I've been thinking about Hardee! I have a picture of him in my head pretty much in mid air about to hit the water! Haha! I'm so glad you guys are having an awesome summer and doing what he loves. It may build up his confidence to do another chemo round. Whatever you decide though, I hope you are having a great time now and enjoying every day! Congrats on the one year anniversary. I feel happy just to get to the two month anniversary at this point!
I know you guys are out and about having fun, but I look forward to Hardee updates when you get a chance!

[charlies_mom]

Hi,

Thank you for your response. I am glad your girl (and your back) is doing better!

I think I'm going to go ahead and see a specialist just to check out any new treatments. He is acting normally, other than a bit of mucus (tinged with blood) now an then, he seems fine. I have to keep the expense in mind because I have 2 other dogs who are 10 and 11 who also need care. Blue is good and health (10yr old), But Maddy is 11 and her hips are quite bad.

I cry almost every morning dreading this. I have rearranged my schedule so I can take him to work. Which he seems to want to be with me no matter where I am, even though he could be hanging out with his brother and sister and 3 cat friends. I deal with dogs seizing in my work sometimes (I am a groomer), but for my own dog, I don't know if I can handle it. I just don't want him hurting.

Seven years ago, Charlie began to lick the side of one of our other dos (Zia). Several months later, we found out Zia had cancer, inside the area where Charlie was licking. It makes me wonder if Charlie knows he has cancer. He smelled Zia's, wouldn't he smell his own?

Anyway, it is too hot to go anywhere today. I want to take the dogs to the mountains to run, but the heat makes Charlie's nose run more and so we are just going to stay inside today.

Thank you for your response.

[oscarmom]

just checking in and want to say I am very sorry for all going thru, or have gone thru, the dreaded nasal cancer. hard to believe this topic has so many pages, wish it weren't so.
for all who don't know me, I lost my sweet Oscar ( a bichon) 4 years ago to this disease. had to make the decision to end his suffering, for his sake. I miss my boy every day, always will. offering my sympathy and prayers to everyone and their beloved pets

here's my handsome boy:

[corgi lover]

Hi to everyone-
We just received bad news yesterday. Our corgi, Finnigan has nasal cancer. We are waiting for the biopsy to see what kind of cancer we are dealing with. Finnigan just turned 8 years old last month. The specialist is suggesting radiation. I have read through the threads, is this a good way to go? We certainly don't want him to suffer, we are both in a fog.

Thank you for any responses.

[Dashdog]

So very sorry to see all the new dogs here...d Cancer! I am glad to see that this thread does live on as I found it very helpful to be able to talk with others going through the same thing when dealing with Dash's nasal cancer( also found that VERY true when dealing with my mom's cancer/death) which is one of the reasons I started this thread.

I think the very best thing to buy time is radiation, Cyberknife is probably the best but but is hard to find and probably more expensive, I was very happy with the IMRT Dash got as it gave him good quality time and he had no major side effects, I only did Palliative as I did not want him to have to deal with side effects (even though when going through them you do have to remember that the worst of them do pass).I also had no problems doing and anti-angiogenic form or metronomic therapy which did use Prixocam and very low doses of Cytoxan( it is a chemo agent but not toxic at the lower dose as it does not kill the cancer directly like chemo but used together they stop or slow the formation of new blood supplies to the tumor so it slows down and starves) Not all dogs tolerate the drugs well but it is not expensive and are pills you give at home the down side is our oncologist wanted monthly blood tests and that is expensive , my regular vet felt we could have done less blood tests. Dash tolerated the drugs well but he had a caste iron gut. I also attempted a using neoplasene and while I did feel that yes it can kill cancer I do not think I would use it for an internal cancer in an airway as I still think some of the dead tumor got trapped in his sinuses and set him up for a big infection. I would use it topically for cancer growths on the outside of the body where the dead tumor can then drop off. Diet I feel is important and for a period of time Dash would only eat high protein foods which my vet as totally against as he had calcium Oxolayte stones in the past but he seemed to feel so much better when he ate the high quaility protein.

My advice to any one dealing with this is pick something you are comfortable with that you can afford and that you feel your dog will tolerate well. Even just letting the cancer takes its course is OK if you feel that is best, but be warned being nasal cancer it will get to the point where breathing when asleep becomes difficult as they usually do not pant in their sleep so your dog will be awake and pacing, Dash's radiation helped there so yes he was alot more comfortable after it but only you can decided what is best for your dog and ignore the people that will try to beat you up for doing treatment.If you have read through this very long thread you can see I was often the target of such people


While the cancer was an awful thing as was loosing Dash there was a bright side and that was some of the people I met here are now facebook friends and one. LuAnn who lives in Texas and I had never met but she pulled my newest puppy Chaos from the high kill shelter in Texas for me and took her to her vets to board until I was able to fly to Texas to get her and yes to meet LuAnn .What a great day that was! LuAnn is Chao's god mother now!