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i am just catching up on your troubles and can't tell, from the posts, whether or not you have a definitive diagnosis on hogan. as you have read, most of our dogs with nasal cancer have different symptoms - sneezing, reverse and otherwise, congested nose and occasional not constant bleeding. i empathize with your problem as our house is dotted with blankets and towels to absorb tillie's dripping although she has not bled in quite some time - just constant dripping of various colors. but it would be good to know if any vet has isolated his problem as only then will you be treating a specific thing instead of throwing lots of random choices at him.
by the way, how is hogan's behavior? is he eating? i'm sure his being isolated is a drag for all of you but if he is eating then he is not going anyway yet.
all my best.
arlene (and tillie who had slept quietly for a few notes for no apparent reason!)
Arlene,
Nothing definitive, but if they are leaning in any direction it would be a nasal tumor. It is odd that there are no other symptoms , but this beast could be small and deadly. It's position just might lend itself to keep breaking blood vessel 's...Still it's odd..I wonder if any body here has just bleeding as a symptom..His first bad bleed was Jan then nothing for a month, then a big bleed, then quiet for a couple of weeks, then happened a couple of days apart. Now the first two bleeds started with dive bombing in the snow, the last two with no trauma..odd..
Rod
Arlene,
Nothing definitive, but if they are leaning in any direction it would be a nasal tumor. It is odd that there are no other symptoms , but this beast could be small and deadly. It's position just might lend itself to keep breaking blood vessel 's...Still it's odd..I wonder if any body here has just bleeding as a symptom..His first bad bleed was Jan then nothing for a month, then a big bleed, then quiet for a couple of weeks, then happened a couple of days apart. Now the first two bleeds started with dive bombing in the snow, the last two with no trauma..odd..
Rod
Rod, I think this is pretty typical of the disease. In some cases, it can happen very fast. Your dog was sick back in January. It is now April, so you've had about four months since diagnosis. It sounds very much like nasal cancer. Yes, you could spend thousands of dollars on the dog, but I don't know that anything would change. W.
from Oscar's first real symptoms to the end was about 6 months. ( albeit the vet thought he probably had it awhile without obvious symptoms) it began with sneezing,then reverse sneezing, and I noticed more snoring at night and usually he didn't snore. the nosebleeds came later- around Feb, then he was gone in early April.
I sure hope that Hogan has some other, fixable problem. the rhinoscopy may find something in his nose other than a tumor or cancer causing the problem. the bleeding you describe does seem somewhat different than usual. Oscar would bleed on and off, but small amounts- I always seemed to be wiping his nose, or a few spots on his blankets. he didn't have very many larger bleeds.
Rod,
Advice given to me by a veterinarian when Emmitt (Min. Schnauzer) had a major nosebleed: Get a small amount of Epinephrine and dispense into the nose to stop the bleeding. Keep in mind that Epinephrine is also adrenaline and can cause the blood pressure to go up so a small amount will do. Correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe that they use Epinephrine on accident victims to stop the bleeding. Not sure but I think I remember reading that somewhere.
Also, give Hogan raw beef liver (no bigger than the first digit of your thumb) to replace lost red blood cells. Too much beef liver can cause damage so, depending on the amount of blood lost, two to three pieces per day should suffice.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and Hogan as well.
Dashdog,
Jen thanx for the info. Depending on how much the dog did bleed it sounds pretty close to Hoagans symptoms. I hope Dash and Jazz are holding there own. Ever notice how one can start caring about another's dog.
Oscarmom. I'm going to explore a Rhinoscopy. I may not find out anymore, but I can't learn any less. If Hoagan's xrays did indicate a tumor I would proably not go any further and put him down when I felt it was time. One never knows, with bleeding and no other symptoms, and I do mean none, I might luck out. I know I got plenty of good thoughts here.
Schanuzardad, Funny I asked my vet about epinephrine. He didn't want to try that yet. But the liver I'm sure Hoagan will have no problem with..Tnanx..
Ok I'm going to stay up late now as Hoagan is taking prednisone which cause's him to have to pee kinda like me now...Prostates ladies, mans curse..
Woof I know where you are coming from, most times. If I knew what I was dealing with my approach might be different...But I'm still trying to find out. This kinda walks like a duck, but that's it so far..
Granted bleeding now occurs every day, which is creating it's own set of problems and may by itself force me to.....we all know..
Hogan started bleeding so I'm off to the races...Again..
I put Hogan down today. He was bleeding the whole nite. This is the saddest day in my life, so far. I cry hard when I cry. I've done this three times before. I know what goes on. But this was in all sense "My Dog" as shepherds tend to be a one person dog. He slept on my side of the bed. When my wife and I would go out he would go into the bedroom and lay on my side of the bed till he heard us come home. I would leave the tv and light on for him. He then ran to the door right past my wife and greet me like I just came home from the war. Then I would let him out, never once did he have an accident...He then would come in and I always gave him a treat. Then he marched right back into my bedroom and went to sleep. I heard all those dog noise's. For some reason any time the carpet was vaccumed he would run to the living room and lay down on the carpet being done. You would have to vaccum around him..I was home with the dog all day, as I am retired. I still remember the day I first saw him in the back of a SUV..Big ears, big nose...I knew he was for me...All over now, no more greetings, no more noise, no more going crazy when I went for his chain to walk him..All over...No dog can ever replace him..I cannot go through another loss like this. Sorry there is no peace right now knowing he is out of suffering, I WANT HIM BACK....He never judged me, or care how I looked or smelled..Only happy when he saw me. A pain in the ass sometimes, but honest love all times..There is no right time for death. only necessary time...I truely wish all the dogs on this thread nothing but hope..Cause my hope is over...
I could not make the trip for him to be put down..I kissed him good by and my son and wife took him. My son stayed in the room with him...I will get his ashes..
Rod, only half the man he was....
Rod, I am so sorry, I really have no words. of course you are half the man you were, because Hogan took the rest with him. you and he will always have a part of each other. Hogan's troubles are now over and just beginning for you.
they leave such a big hole when they go. Oscar was my little man but he could sure fill a house. it seemed so empty without him, even now still does
this summed up that feeling:
They Will Not Go Quietly
(Linda Barnes)
They will not go quietly,
the dogs that shared our lives.
In subtle ways they let us know
their spirit still survives.
Old habits still make us think
we hear a barking at the door.
Or step back when we drop
a tasty morsel on the floor.
Our feet still go around the place
the food dish used to be,
And sometimes, coming home at night,
we miss them terribly.
And although time may bring new friends
and a new food dish to fill,
That one place in our hearts
belongs to them...
and always will.
I know this is little consolation right now- but Hogan knows how much you loved him, still love him, and did all in your power and more to help him. don't worry about not being there at " the end". I was there with Oscar in that room at the vet's, but my husband had to go sit in the car. Oscar knew that even tho Daddy seemed like a tough guy, he was really a softy.
I am going to light a candle for Hogan, and probably shed some tears for a dog I never knew, but would have been honored to. you are both in my thoughts.
ps- when you feel up to it there is another website I found most helpful. they helped me immensely when Oscar passed on
You're post is making me cry. What a beautiful tribute to an outstanding dog. I feel your pain. It is the same pain I felt the day I lost my girl. I felt like someone reached in and tore the heart right out of me. I wanted to follow my girl. I never knew a pain like that.
Love the part where you say you knew the first day you saw him, big ears, big nose, that dog was for you.
Rest in peace, dear Hogan. You are deeply missed.
W.
Last edited by Woof Woof Woof!; 04-04-2009 at 12:59 PM..
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