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All culling means is to remove an animal from the breeding population. All breeders should and must cull if they wish to have healthy animals that are representative of their breed type.
That said, culling should mean to spay or neuter unless the animal has a health condition that prevents it from living an active life. If a breeder is routinely euthanizing for health conditions they are doing something wrong (such as breeding merle x merle.) Such a breeder can not claim that they are 'culling' for ethical reasons in that case when the much more ethical option would be to simply change their breeding habits.
There are some breeds in which the breed standard directly results in animals that suffer from health conditions, often severe enough to make euthanizing the only option. Manx cats, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, and some types of halter horse can all result in offspring that have fatal health conditions. Careful breeding can minimize the chances, but the very gene responsible for the breed characteristics are directly linked to the health problems. In those cases, I don't think that breed should continue to be kept.
Sorry but I feel culling a dog just because it does not live up to the breed standards or is not what you consider perfect is just wrong. Yeah they can not be sold as show dogs or working dogs but there are people that just want a pet and some of these dogs make fantastic pets. Here a some photos of some and if you can look at those faces and tell me they are not capable of making some one happy then there is something wrong with your vision of the world . These dogs are homozygous merles and deaf with different degrees of vision lost. They also make great dogs to use with handicapped kids as they teach the kids that it is ok to have a handicap and not something to be ashamed of so they can be working dogs in that aspect.
The first one who has a much more normal looking coat ( not the usual amount of white you see in them) Is my Late Phoenix playing with my Dazzle ( black and white silken windhound). She was born deaf and had limited vision as both eyes had some serious defects but she could see enough to notice exagerated hand signals and see things that moved so was good at the game of chase Dazzle. She was 2 when I got her and when my vet met her his first comment to me was " why did you get a deaf vision limited dog? They tend to be biters" Well Phoenix taught my vet how wrong he is to assume that and 10 yrs later when her kidneys failed after her fight with pneumonia ( which was probably an aspiration pneumonia as her first owner had her debarked and she tended to choke on food more then a non debarked dog would) my vet had a very hard time putting her down and he said she was the sweetest most loveable dog he had ever met. She had a great life and as I have said she never knew she was any different then any other dog and had her breeder culled her I would have missed out knowing such a wonderful happy dog. Everybody that knew her loved her.
The other pups are more typical of the homozygous merles and are deaf with different degrees of vision loss .How can you look at them and say that they should not be allowed to be someones loving pet? I have met many and most have that same sweet happy go lucky personality Phoenix did so sorry I can not say that I feel it is ok to cull them especially when some are not culled until 5 or 6 weeks and then something like drowning them is done We do not live in a perfect world so why should a pet quality dog have to be perfect? As has been pointed out here most dog breeders are not in it for money as you will not become rich breeding dogs.
If people would learn more about genetics before they breed there would be very little need for culling dogs. But I guess culling is just too easy for some. Thank you to what ever breeder decided to let Phoenix live.
Sorry but I feel culling a dog just because it does not live up to the breed standards or is not what you consider perfect is just wrong. Yeah they can not be sold as show dogs or working dogs but there are people that just want a pet and some of these dogs make fantastic pets. Here a some photos of some and if you can look at those faces and tell me they are not capable of making some one happy then there is something wrong with your vision of the world . These dogs are homozygous merles and deaf with different degrees of vision lost. They also make great dogs to use with handicapped kids as they teach the kids that it is ok to have a handicap and not something to be ashamed of so they can be working dogs in that aspect.
I agree with you that a dog should not be euthanized for being blind or deaf (or both, as many blind and deaf animals do very well.) My own cat is blind (he lost both eyes in kittenhood to infection) and has absolutely no trouble getting around!
However, breeders who breed merle to merle are highly unethical. They are purposely selecting for a high chance of health conditions. Euthanizing the resulting puppies would be compounding their moral crimes, but choosing instead to adopt them out does not erase that first unethical decision to breed those dogs in the first place.
I really wish that breed organizations and so-called ethical breeders would do a better job of policing their own. Shows very often reward coat colors or breed types that are linked to health conditions in a percentage of the puppies. The ones who win in the show ring are the percent that got lucky.
I agree with you that a dog should not be euthanized for being blind or deaf (or both, as many blind and deaf animals do very well.) My own cat is blind (he lost both eyes in kittenhood to infection) and has absolutely no trouble getting around!
However, breeders who breed merle to merle are highly unethical. They are purposely selecting for a high chance of health conditions. Euthanizing the resulting puppies would be compounding their moral crimes, but choosing instead to adopt them out does not erase that first unethical decision to breed those dogs in the first place.
I really wish that breed organizations and so-called ethical breeders would do a better job of policing their own. Shows very often reward coat colors or breed types that are linked to health conditions in a percentage of the puppies. The ones who win in the show ring are the percent that got lucky.
Yes! Their "good deed" for donation of their "flawed dogs", doesn't justify their actions. As long at it meets the standard via show and wins doesn't matter how its achieved.
Eevee the lady with the ridgebacks was in my opinion irrational, to cull because the pup was missing a "ridge." :roll: Show breeding drive me insane, don't get me started on the GSD's.
Anyway I'm not saying that deaf and/or blind dogs can't live a good life. If the animal is living in constant fear due to these flaws, that I find to be cruel. Also they may not be as fortunate to find homes like the ones Dashdog posted. For working breeders they are not interested in just "pets" from their standpoint its "less work" and cost effective to just cull.
Its a touchy subject and everyone has their own perspective of it. If someone was to do a "hard cull" I would prefer they do it humanely. Like what foxy mentioned.
I agree with you that a dog should not be euthanized for being blind or deaf (or both, as many blind and deaf animals do very well.) My own cat is blind (he lost both eyes in kittenhood to infection) and has absolutely no trouble getting around!
However, breeders who breed merle to merle are highly unethical. They are purposely selecting for a high chance of health conditions. Euthanizing the resulting puppies would be compounding their moral crimes, but choosing instead to adopt them out does not erase that first unethical decision to breed those dogs in the first place.
I really wish that breed organizations and so-called ethical breeders would do a better job of policing their own. Shows very often reward coat colors or breed types that are linked to health conditions in a percentage of the puppies. The ones who win in the show ring are the percent that got lucky.
I agree with you and I do find it very unethical to be breeding a merle coated dog to another merle but there are breeders out there that just do not care and there are also people that do not know better The second photo is from the rescue group in Arizona and part of their goal is to educate people about the issue of merle to merle breeding but having tried to educate people with Phoenix I did come across a few breeders who told me too bad if some puppies have to die ...the attitude being it was a small price to pay. So while I would love to see the practice stopped we all know that will not happen and since the AKC and breed clubs just seem to look the other way it will continue. So many breeds have been ruined by unethical breeding which is so sad
Sorry but I feel culling a dog just because it does not live up to the breed standards or is not what you consider perfect is just wrong. Yeah they can not be sold as show dogs or working dogs but there are people that just want a pet and some of these dogs make fantastic pets. Here a some photos of some and if you can look at those faces and tell me they are not capable of making some one happy then there is something wrong with your vision of the world . These dogs are homozygous merles and deaf with different degrees of vision lost. They also make great dogs to use with handicapped kids as they teach the kids that it is ok to have a handicap and not something to be ashamed of so they can be working dogs in that aspect.
The first one who has a much more normal looking coat ( not the usual amount of white you see in them) Is my Late Phoenix playing with my Dazzle ( black and white silken windhound). She was born deaf and had limited vision as both eyes had some serious defects but she could see enough to notice exagerated hand signals and see things that moved so was good at the game of chase Dazzle. She was 2 when I got her and when my vet met her his first comment to me was " why did you get a deaf vision limited dog? They tend to be biters" Well Phoenix taught my vet how wrong he is to assume that and 10 yrs later when her kidneys failed after her fight with pneumonia ( which was probably an aspiration pneumonia as her first owner had her debarked and she tended to choke on food more then a non debarked dog would) my vet had a very hard time putting her down and he said she was the sweetest most loveable dog he had ever met. She had a great life and as I have said she never knew she was any different then any other dog and had her breeder culled her I would have missed out knowing such a wonderful happy dog. Everybody that knew her loved her.
The other pups are more typical of the homozygous merles and are deaf with different degrees of vision loss .How can you look at them and say that they should not be allowed to be someones loving pet? I have met many and most have that same sweet happy go lucky personality Phoenix did so sorry I can not say that I feel it is ok to cull them especially when some are not culled until 5 or 6 weeks and then something like drowning them is done We do not live in a perfect world so why should a pet quality dog have to be perfect? As has been pointed out here most dog breeders are not in it for money as you will not become rich breeding dogs.
If people would learn more about genetics before they breed there would be very little need for culling dogs. But I guess culling is just too easy for some. Thank you to what ever breeder decided to let Phoenix live.
that bottom picture looks like fun!
I am getting into breeding Shar Pei ... but not for profit.
Every pup we will be selling will come with a 1 year Banfield healthcare coverage to be sure they have all the basics like parvo and kennel cough and rabies shots and other basics.
theres different types of "culling"
"hard" culling is where breeders kill puppies that dont suit their "needs". this process is seriously looked down upon these days unless theres a serious issue (life endangering birth defects, issues that would prevent the puppies from living a relitivly normal life despite vet care ect (ie severe hip defect, water on the brain ect)
"culling" now tends to be more strict spay/neuter contracts (some breeders even go so far as spay/neutering before the pup can go home) to ensure that those undesireable traits cannot be continued on.
i personally have a strict spay/neuter contract, i couldnt "hard cull" an otherwise healthy puppy but i also couldnt knowingly allow a "cull" to be used for breeding purposes.
i dont belive pediatric spay is healthy, so i withhold papers and keep in strict contact with pupy buyers.
Yes! Their "good deed" for donation of their "flawed dogs", doesn't justify their actions. As long at it meets the standard via show and wins doesn't matter how its achieved.
Eevee the lady with the ridgebacks was in my opinion irrational, to cull because the pup was missing a "ridge." :roll: Show breeding drive me insane, don't get me started on the GSD's.
Anyway I'm not saying that deaf and/or blind dogs can't live a good life. If the animal is living in constant fear due to these flaws, that I find to be cruel. Also they may not be as fortunate to find homes like the ones Dashdog posted. For working breeders they are not interested in just "pets" from their standpoint its "less work" and cost effective to just cull.
Its a touchy subject and everyone has their own perspective of it. If someone was to do a "hard cull" I would prefer they do it humanely. Like what foxy mentioned.
Ridgebacks have a double issue. You have breeders who cull for lack of a ridge. Then you have dogs with dermoid sinuses...basically a thin tube leading from the skin surface down to the spinal cord. This basically leaves the spine open to the outside world and can create infection and death. It requires a surgical fix. It isn't a huge problem in the breed (estimates vary, but around 10% seem to be affected).
It's interesting here because lack of a ridge doesn't affect the health of the animal at all while the dermoid sinuses most certainly do. Yet in the show ring a ridgeless dog would be thrown out, and one with a dermoid sinus could possibly win the prize.
I have to question the ethics of a breed standard that calls for a feature that cannot possibly be passed down to all of the pups AND which does not affect the dog's health or ability to work. Because of the genetics involved, even the best breeder with the best dogs will have some pups born without a ridge. While most ridgeback breeders are now against hard culling (or at least claim to be), it seems like such a breed standard is almost setting up a situation in which hard culling of healthy animals will be practiced.
i dont have "breeds" i have a single pair of chinese cresteds who are pets first and have been bred in the past and might breed for one more litter soley because i have a waiting list..however imay still yet decide not to breed them. im active in rescue, particularly my own "breed" and have a rescue neutered mastif mix boy and 4 rescued cats (all but 2 are spay neutered and those 2 arnt done yet because ive been waiting for them to reach the weight restrictions)
I also have and breed ducks, rabbits and goats.
whih actually rings me to bumpus' point...
your VERY incorrect the ONLY people making money of breeding anythign alive are LARGE SCALE FACTORY FARMS...
real breeders be it dogs cats fish goats donkeys horses ect, put more money INTO breeding correctly than theyll ever see fully returned. if your making a profit breeding animals on the small sale your cutting corners somewhere. people breeding animals (livestock included) are happy if said animals pay their way...in otherwords for example my rabbits...
im VERY hapy if i can sell enough baby bunnies to cover the cost of feed, hay and bedding for the year and put some meat in my freezer...
im happy if i hatch enough eggs to sell ducklings to cover the cost of their fee and allow me to eat fresh eggs every day without being in the red...
now large scale big ag factory farming where they raise thouhsands of animals in tiny spaces with little reguard to true health and care, feeding the cheapest foods and pumping them full of chemicals...yeah theres profit in that...but id that realy the kind of stuf fyou WANT to support?
Foxy, totally off topic, but we haven't seen pictures of that mastiff mix in a very long time!!
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. She was 2 when I got her and when my vet met her his first comment to me was " why did you get a deaf vision limited dog? They tend to be biters" Well Phoenix taught my vet how wrong he is to assume that and 10 yrs later when her kidneys failed after her fight with pneumonia ( which was probably an aspiration pneumonia as her first owner had her debarked
and she tended to choke on food more then a non debarked dog would) my vet had a very hard time putting her down and he said she was the sweetest most loveable dog he had ever met. She had a great life and as I have said she never knew she was any different then any other dog and had her breeder culled her I would have missed out knowing such a wonderful happy dog. Everybody that knew her loved her. 
The second photo is from the rescue group in Arizona and part of their goal is to educate people about the issue of merle to merle breeding but having tried to educate people with Phoenix I did come across a few breeders who told me too bad if some puppies have to die ...the attitude being it was a small price to pay. So while I would love to see the practice stopped we all know that will not happen and since the AKC and breed clubs just seem to look the other way it will continue. So many breeds have been ruined by unethical breeding which is so sad
