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Old 12-27-2012, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,111 posts, read 41,250,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickSantos View Post
There are major problems with the cholesterol hypothesis. Your tiniest veins never become atherosclerotic. Only arteries do.

The tiniest veins have every bit as much cholesterol flowing through them.
Veins do not develop "atherosclerosis" due to differences in the mechanics of blood flow and the lower pressure in the venous system.

However, when veins are used to bypass blocked coronary arteries, they do develop atherosclerosis. Lowering cholesterol reduces it and delays closure of the graft.

Aggressive Cholesterol Lowering Delays Saphenous Vein Graft Atherosclerosis in Women, the Elderly, and Patients With Associated Risk Factors
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Prospect, KY
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But high cholesterol can contribute to vascular disease. My husband has a carotid artery issue (blockage) but he does not have heart disease. He adopted a vegan diet 6 months ago....we go back to the vascular doctor on January 10 - we will learn whether cutting out all animal products has made any difference in the artery blockage.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,111 posts, read 41,250,908 times
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Cut open an atherosclerotic artery and you can see the deposits of cholesterol in the vessel wall. To say cholesterol is not involved in cardiovascular disease is ridiculous. Cholesterol is only part of the story, however. Inflammation is also involved, and preventing that is problematic. Statins not only lower cholesterol levels, they also have an anti-inflammatory effect.

The beneficial effect of lowering cholesterol for people who have already had a heart attack or who have high risk of heart attack or stroke is well established. The benefit for people who are low risk may be small but measureable.

No one has to take cholesterol lowering medication who does not want to.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:10 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,776,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Cut open an atherosclerotic artery and you can see the deposits of cholesterol in the vessel wall. To say cholesterol is not involved in cardiovascular disease is ridiculous. Cholesterol is only part of the story, however. Inflammation is also involved, and preventing that is problematic. Statins not only lower cholesterol levels, they also have an anti-inflammatory effect.

The beneficial effect of lowering cholesterol for people who have already had a heart attack or who have high risk of heart attack or stroke is well established. The benefit for people who are low risk may be small but measureable.

No one has to take cholesterol lowering medication who does not want to.
I think it's important to note that there's a difference between dietary cholesterol and blood (serum) cholesterol. It was believed, for some time, that because eggs are high in dietary cholesterol, then you should avoid eating them because they'd increase your serum cholesterol levels. However, this is untrue. Eggs -are- high in cholesterol. But eating a few eggs every week won't raise your cholesterol level. Diets that are high in "bad" fat (such as lard and margarine) and carbohydrates (in particular foods loaded with both starch and sugar, such as cookies, cake, donuts), however, will raise your cholesterol level. So - lean meats - not going to raise your cholesterol level. Fatty meats will. A few strawberries - won't. Strawberry cream pie with whipped cream and a graham cracker crust - will.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,111 posts, read 41,250,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
I think it's important to note that there's a difference between dietary cholesterol and blood (serum) cholesterol. It was believed, for some time, that because eggs are high in dietary cholesterol, then you should avoid eating them because they'd increase your serum cholesterol levels. However, this is untrue. Eggs -are- high in cholesterol. But eating a few eggs every week won't raise your cholesterol level. Diets that are high in "bad" fat (such as lard and margarine) and carbohydrates (in particular foods loaded with both starch and sugar, such as cookies, cake, donuts), however, will raise your cholesterol level. So - lean meats - not going to raise your cholesterol level. Fatty meats will. A few strawberries - won't. Strawberry cream pie with whipped cream and a graham cracker crust - will.
Serum cholesterol is derived from both dietary (animal) fat and cholesterol produced by the body, mostly in the liver. Some people are genetically predisposed to make more and will not be able to lower serum cholesterol just with diet. That does not mean that dietary fat is unimportant. Eggs are often mentioned because each yolk contains about 200 mg cholesterol. Since eggs are a good source of other nutrients, one solution is to discard some of the yolks and just use the whites, such as in making omelettes.

All sources of dietary cholesterol are animal: eggs, dairy, and meat. Even lean meat will contain some, red meat more than white meat from poultry.

Delicious Foods to Keep Away a Heart Attack
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:08 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,776,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Serum cholesterol is derived from both dietary (animal) fat and cholesterol produced by the body, mostly in the liver. Some people are genetically predisposed to make more and will not be able to lower serum cholesterol just with diet. That does not mean that dietary fat is unimportant. Eggs are often mentioned because each yolk contains about 200 mg cholesterol. Since eggs are a good source of other nutrients, one solution is to discard some of the yolks and just use the whites, such as in making omelettes.

All sources of dietary cholesterol are animal: eggs, dairy, and meat. Even lean meat will contain some, red meat more than white meat from poultry.

Delicious Foods to Keep Away a Heart Attack
Right, but eating eggs, dairy, and meat in moderation, and trimming the fat of them, or getting the skim-milk version of them, will not contribute -sufficiently- to high cholesterol in the blood.

So, making a chocolate mousse with 5 egg yolks and heavy whipping cream - it's the yolks and the fat in the dairy that's causing the serum cholesterol to go up. An omelet with 5 egg whites and 1 yolk, and an 8-ounce glass of skim milk with a teaspoon of cocoa powder (which DOES have fat in it), will not cause or contribute to a stroke in a high-risk patient. On the other hand, if that omelet was made with those 5 whites, 1 yolk, and fried in bacon grease (which is delicious btw), then that risk factor goes way up.

Dietary fat is important - but dietary cholesterol is not the same thing as dietary fat. There are fats that LOWER blood cholesterol, afterall, so you can't really say "avoid all dietary fat." I mean you can, but it's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
525 posts, read 760,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Cut open an atherosclerotic artery and you can see the deposits of cholesterol in the vessel wall. To say cholesterol is not involved in cardiovascular disease is ridiculous. Cholesterol is only part of the story, however. Inflammation is also involved, and preventing that is problematic. Statins not only lower cholesterol levels, they also have an anti-inflammatory effect.

The beneficial effect of lowering cholesterol for people who have already had a heart attack or who have high risk of heart attack or stroke is well established. The benefit for people who are low risk may be small but measureable.

No one has to take cholesterol lowering medication who does not want to.

Statins have PLEOTROPIC EFFECTS- at 12 of them.They do AT LEAST 12 more things than MERE cholesterol reduction.

Dietary cholesterol lowering has been a FAILURE. NON- statin cholesterol lowering drugs such as cholestyramine have been a failure.

Atherosclerosis does not form uniformly or willy nilly. It ONLY forms at DISCREET areas of DAMAGE in the artery .

Cholesterol is there to REPAIR the damage.



Read Anthony Colpo's "The Great Cholesterol Con"


I have researched this even more than obesity. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
525 posts, read 760,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Veins do not develop "atherosclerosis" due to differences in the mechanics of blood flow and the lower pressure in the venous system.

However, when veins are used to bypass blocked coronary arteries, they do develop atherosclerosis. Lowering cholesterol reduces it and delays closure of the graft.

Aggressive Cholesterol Lowering Delays Saphenous Vein Graft Atherosclerosis in Women, the Elderly, and Patients With Associated Risk Factors

You're only demonstrating MY POINT even more. Veins MOVED to the heart in a coronary re-vacularization operation can NOW become atherosclerotic.


BECAUSE THEY NOW GET THAT SAME SHEAR FORCE that coronary arteries do BLOOD RPESSURE , nor cholesterol, is the CAUSE of this damage.


THE CHOLESTEROL HYPOTHESIS IS NOT VALID.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
525 posts, read 760,906 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
cut open an atherosclerotic artery and you can see the deposits of cholesterol in the vessel wall. To say cholesterol is not involved in cardiovascular disease is ridiculous. Cholesterol is only part of the story, however. Inflammation is also involved, and preventing that is problematic. Statins not only lower cholesterol levels, they also have an anti-inflammatory effect.

The beneficial effect of lowering cholesterol for people who have already had a heart attack or who have high risk of heart attack or stroke is well established. The benefit for people who are low risk may be small but measureable.

No one has to take cholesterol lowering medication who does not want to.

next to useless for primary prevention. And they come with dozens and dozens of serious side effects.

at least dr. Beatrice golumb is an honest doctor speaking out against these terrible drugs.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
525 posts, read 760,906 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Serum cholesterol is derived from both dietary (animal) fat and cholesterol produced by the body, mostly in the liver. Some people are genetically predisposed to make more and will not be able to lower serum cholesterol just with diet. That does not mean that dietary fat is unimportant. Eggs are often mentioned because each yolk contains about 200 mg cholesterol. Since eggs are a good source of other nutrients, one solution is to discard some of the yolks and just use the whites, such as in making omelettes.

All sources of dietary cholesterol are animal: eggs, dairy, and meat. Even lean meat will contain some, red meat more than white meat from poultry.

Delicious Foods to Keep Away a Heart Attack

Dietary cholesterol is meaningless. Saturated fat MAY affect levels in SOME, but so what? Cholesterol levesl are a GREAT RED HERRING.

ALSO saturated fat restriction has failed miserably to prevent heart attacks or reduce deaths from CAD in randomzied clinical trials as Anthony Colpo pointed out.
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