Considering Dallas downtown area/Is it a walkable area?

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

NO absolutely not. Plano has no street scene at all, it's a generic burb.

The one big thing dallas has to do to make it's downtown come alive is submerge that highway loop. Then all the neighborhoods would connected and it would be walkable. Sure it would cost a bundle, but in the long run, it would be seen as the smartest thing they ever did.

Downtown Plano has a pleasant one or two block stretch of pedestrian accessible shops.

Legacy in Plano is heavy with foot traffic and people on the street, with many places to walk to on Bishop street and the surrounding streets.

The Woodall Rogers park will cover the freeway between downtown and Uptown, but it honestly does not improve pedestrian access. There are plenty of bridges already that pedestrians can walk on to cross Woodall Rogers. West and east of the new park, the freeway is elevated, and easy to walk under.

Why do people continue to use the rhetorical argument that claims something does not exist? It is a stupid tactic, since just one contrary example destroys your credibility.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by aceplace

Downtown Plano has a pleasant one or two block stretch of pedestrian accessible shops.

True, but it's always dead. At least the two dozen times I've driven by. :-(

Originally Posted by aceplace

Legacy in Plano is heavy with foot traffic and people on the street, with many places to walk to on Bishop street and the surrounding streets.

Really? Cool! I've been by once or twice, never found my Newbury St. I'll check it out!

Originally Posted by aceplace

The Woodall Rogers park will cover the freeway between downtown and Uptown, but it honestly does not improve pedestrian access. There are plenty of bridges already that pedestrians can walk on to cross Woodall Rogers. West and east of the new park, the freeway is elevated, and easy to walk under.

Sounds like a good start. Long term vision here. every city in the USA got hammered by this lack of foresight. NYC was lucky they stopped Robert Moses when they did.

Originally Posted by aceplace

Why do people continue to use the rhetorical argument that claims something does not exist? It is a stupid tactic, since just one contrary example destroys your credibility.

You're right, sorry bout that. That was not really any tactic as I have no agenda. Probably just an emotional outburst on my behalf for being stranded out here the dull burbs!

[Lakewooder]

Well I doubt that Newbury St. is anything like Newbury in Boston!

I don't think there is a plan to submerge the freeway on the east side of downtown (Project Pegasus may help on the south and west sides), but the second downtown DART line will connect at the new Deep Ellum station - and the steetcar lines being planned will probably also connect there -- so the east end will be very accessible.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

Well I doubt that Newbury St. is anything like Newbury in Boston!

I suspect you're right LW. If my unemployed teacher wife gets gainfully employed b4 we drain our life savings, we're more likely to seek our TX nirvana down your way. DISD and Lake Highlands is her goal. God forbid she ends up working in McKinney!

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

I don't think there is a plan to submerge the freeway on the east side of downtown (Project Pegasus may help on the south and west sides), but the second downtown DART line will connect at the new Deep Ellum station - and the streetcar lines being planned will probably also connect there -- so the east end will be very accessible.

I think it will take a while before many cities take on the challenge Boston just completed. NYC was only lucky Robert Moses didn't chop up Manhattan. With all rhetorical posturing about Boston's Big Dig, it's gonna take a while before cities recognize the value of not butchering up your city (downtowns and waterfronts in particular!) with big abominations built for the convenience of far flung commuters, but it will happen I think. Credit to Dallas for at least doing something to make them not so abominable - such as the underpass from the West End to the House of Blues. Anyways, the day that commuters are underground and baby carriages, parks, and flowers are above ground will be a better day for this or any city.

Then:


Now:


Awesome, huh? And it would be easier to do in Dallas than BOS too!

[Lakewooder]

Well we are doing this:

Woodall Rodgers Deck Park Gets Stimulated | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

I suspect you're right LW. If my unemployed teacher wife gets gainfully employed b4 we drain our life savings, we're more likely to seek our TX nirvana down your way. DISD and Lake Highlands is her goal. God forbid she ends up working in McKinney!



I think it will take a while before many cities take on the challenge Boston just completed. NYC was only lucky Robert Moses didn't chop up Manhattan. With all rhetorical posturing about Boston's Big Dig, it's gonna take a while before cities recognize the value of not butchering up your city (downtowns and waterfronts in particular!) with big abominations built for the convenience of far flung commuters, but it will happen I think. Credit to Dallas for at least doing something to make them not so abominable - such as the underpass from the West End to the House of Blues. Anyways, the day that commuters are underground and baby carriages, parks, and flowers are above ground will be a better day for this or any city.

Then:


Now:


Awesome, huh? And it would be easier to do in Dallas than BOS too!

That's a pretty good transition... is that the Big Dig area in Boston?

I hope the Woodall Rogers freeway park follows through on all the plans they have for activities, rather than just a wide grassy area that nobody uses.

As far as Bishop Street in Legacy, I've been there on the weekends when it's pretty lively. The pattern of the streets south of Legacy drive seems to be conducive to walking and access to the shops on Bishop street. North of Legacy, the back streets of apartments seems to be not so pedestrian-friendly. You can walk around easily enough, but there's something about the design of the streets, the way they're laid out, that inhibits pedestrian flow. They did complete a street in the north end of Legacy that is pretty good, though. It has the largest independent bookstore in DFW.

[xS☺B☺s]

Yes, that's the final product of the Big Dig. I was impressed with the plan (http://www.woodallrodgerspark.org/swf/main.htm - broken link) LW pointed out for covering over Woodall in front of the Museums - that plan has great potential - I'm sure they will find that plan will pay for itself 100 times over and very quickly. I predict not only will it live up to its expectations - it will exceed them so wildly that Dallas will move to bury that highway as far as they can as soon as they can. I see a potential Central Park right there. They are even using some of the names used in CP (Great Lawn), so I'm sure the developers see what I see. Too cool.

BTW, thanks for the tip about Legacy, Ace. I went up there and checked it out yesterday and was impressed by what I saw. Sure it's no Times Sq, but no doubt that is the developing Downtown for plain ole Plano. There were two live music acts and lots of people milling about a nicely designed town center. It is limited - it wouldn't replace Downtown Boston for me - but it is a good - and in fact the only - suggestion for someone to check out if they are looking for an oasis of urbanity in otherwise sprawling blah Plano. I will take the family up there from time to time to stroll. It's a good north of Dallas alternative to fighting traffic down to the West End.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

BTW, thanks for the tip about Legacy, Ace. I went up there and checked it out yesterday and was impressed by what I saw.

Glad it worked out for you, Bostonian. Yes, it's not another Newbury street, but it does have something of a pedestrian ambiance.

Las Colinas has a huge poster showing a rendering for a similar project, but I don't know about a time frame for it. If that project goes through, LC will be one of the most pedestrian oriented town centers in the metro, I think.

[aceplace]

Bostonian, you can try Watters Creek Town Center in Allen. It has a pretty good urban feel to it, although it is smaller than Legacy. Unlike Legacy, though, it has a full supermarket, a Barnes and Noble and, of course, a Starbucks.

It looks well designed. The supermarket has one end fronting on what looks like a common strip center with parking, but the other end extends into the urbanized area, thus the people living in the lofts above the retail shops have amenities that the relatively small number of residential units could not support by themselves.

Actually, I love the place. The URL is Shopping Mall Allen | Shopping Store, Restaurant, Entertainment Center in Allen, Plano, Tx (http://www.watters-creek.com/index.aspx - broken link)

[xS☺B☺s]

Thanks ace, I'll check it out sometime. :-)