Dallas Housing Market (Houston, Austin, Plano: homeowners insurance, mortgages, buying)

[Kenro911]

Originally Posted by Sunbather

We're mid 30s in a small home we bought in East Dallas 3 years ago. Burb life is just not for us. But, if you're talking pure financials, I'd still have to see a more convincing argument for NYC being cheaper.

I also disagree with the 30-50% pay increase job-for-job you touted earlier. That flies against most data I've seen in the past. If you don't get clouded by the median household type income and instead look at like-for-like jobs and compare annual gross pay for 'median income type' jobs, you're often only looking at something like a 10% difference between NYC pay and DFW. It's going to vary job by job, but in no way can you make a blanket statement for 30-50% on a like-for-like basis. Friend of ours just moved here to the tune of a 15% raise as a nurse (RN, not NP). No promotion, just one hospital in NYC to another in DFW.

You do realize that’s how some medical field salaries work right? The less desirable the place is, more it pays? Ask your friend how much she’d get paid in Wyoming or North Dakota - probably another 20-30% more.

Its a well known fact that doctors/other medical professions pay much more in rural areas than urban.

Horrible example.

[Cicnod]

Originally Posted by Kenro911

You do realize that’s how some medical field salaries work right? The less desirable the place is, more it pays? Ask your friend how much she’d get paid in Wyoming or North Dakota - probably another 20-30% more.

Its a well known fact that doctors/other medical professions pay much more in rural areas than urban.

Horrible example.

This is simply not true.

First doctors are paid mostly by reimbursement which is based on submitting CPT codes where the amounts are based on either states or cities. Most are not salaried or employed by hospitals. Even those doctors that are salaried it is based on how much revenue a hospital can bring in and city hospitals bring in a lot more.

As for nurses sure once in a while you can find a situation where you can exploit some pay but nurses in NYC make more on average than nurses in Wyoming.

For example a doctor doing a lap chole (most popular surgery in the US) makes $782 (medicare) in LA for a lap chole. This is every single doctor that performs that procedure in LA other than a salaried employee which is rare for a general surgeon. A doctor in Wyoming makes $728. Most procedures have even bigger variances

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by Sunbather

I think a continued but mild softening over the next 3-6 months. And honestly, beyond that, I really have no idea right now.

Denton and Collin Counties inventory of homes is now around 2.5 months, Dallas County about 2.1 months supply.

There is still a shortage of affordable homes but the inventory is getting better for Buyers.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Cicnod

This is simply not true.

First doctors are paid mostly by reimbursement which is based on submitting CPT codes where the amounts are based on either states or cities. Most are not salaried or employed by hospitals. Even those doctors that are salaried it is based on how much revenue a hospital can bring in and city hospitals bring in a lot more.

As for nurses sure once in a while you can find a situation where you can exploit some pay but nurses in NYC make more on average than nurses in Wyoming.

For example a doctor doing a lap chole (most popular surgery in the US) makes $782 (medicare) in LA for a lap chole. This is every single doctor that performs that procedure in LA other than a salaried employee which is rare for a general surgeon. A doctor in Wyoming makes $728. Most procedures have even bigger variances

I want to be perfectly clear Kenro is mostly full of beans across this and many other topics. However, the doc. pay thing is very complex.

For reference my son is a PGY-6 neurosurgery resident, my daughter is an MS-3 currently eyeing orthopedic surgery and I'm an economist who has read-over, worked and re-worked medical pay v. location rubrics many times.

Speaking across averages..............breaking the country up into regions as Medscape does per its doc. remuneration studies shows that generally popular areas of the country do see lower pay than others, this would be even worse if one applied tax and COL differences FWIIW. Generally, the west coast and upper Atlantic seaboard areas pay a little worse than others....it's fairly clear that much of that is due to the fact that these area have more academic and research leaning MDs and those areas pay less than clinical work and greater density per specialty. Further, KY, TN and AL are 1, 2, and 3 in average doc. pay per Medscape 2022 compensation report. This is due to fewer research and teaching docs. and lower doctor saturation (true shortages across many specialties) thus each full time doc. per specialty is busier than interregional peers.

Also especially in the Midwest and portions of The West there are acute physician shortages varying by location and profession. One of my son's MD friends splits a job in a Western state with another doc. who lives in a third state. Bottom line though 3rd party contributions (a melange of state and federal money mostly) this guy makes $550K plus things like use of a house and car, plane tickets etc. etc. working three weeks per month with two months off. The same gig in Dallas would pay about $375-425 full time.

Another angle is how much work can a doc. tolerate vs. avg. patient load with and without insurance over time v. required local medical resources. FE a golf buddy is a hematology-oncology specialist who makes well north of $1MM per year, he invests with me so I know that for sure. However, he enjoys all of the backing of a world class cancer center and partnership, plenty of patients/20MM+ population with a 300 mile radius and he's an inveterate workaholic. Another example of this would be Dr. Willam Boothe in Plano who performed something like 135,000 lasik eye surgeries before retiring. Most likely neither would do/would have done as well in lower population areas.

Same general thing with nurses. Traveling and specialty nurses with the ability to move can do very well.



ETA - keep trying to post a link that refuses to work.

[Sunbather]

Originally Posted by Kenro911

You do realize that’s how some medical field salaries work right? The less desirable the place is, more it pays? Ask your friend how much she’d get paid in Wyoming or North Dakota - probably another 20-30% more.

Its a well known fact that doctors/other medical professions pay much more in rural areas than urban.

Horrible example.

I am well aware that pay varies city to city for many medical professionals. Though I'm not sure I would consider Dallas 'less desirable' than NYC for medical professionals. But this variance is exactly why I used my example. So, while you think it is a horrible example, it was a purposefully picked example. You are using some unfounded blanket statement of people making 30-50% more in NYC to help justify the cost comparison. In reality, lots of jobs, when compared job to job, do NOT make anywhere near that much in NYC. Especially when talking about the kind of jobs that would make money in the median income levels you are describing.

[Cicnod]

Originally Posted by EDS_

I want to be perfectly clear Kenro is mostly full of beans across this and many other topics. However, the doc. pay thing is very complex.

For reference my son is a PGY-6 neurosurgery resident, my daughter is an MS-3 currently eyeing orthopedic surgery and I'm an economist who has read-over, worked and re-worked medical pay v. location rubrics many times.

Speaking across averages..............breaking the country up into regions as Medscape does per its doc. remuneration studies shows that generally popular areas of the country do see lower pay than others, this would be even worse if one applied tax and COL differences FWIIW. Generally, the west coast and upper Atlantic seaboard areas pay a little worse than others....it's fairly clear that much of that is due to the fact that these area have more academic and research leaning MDs and those areas pay less than clinical work and greater density per specialty. Further, KY, TN and AL are 1, 2, and 3 in average doc. pay per Medscape 2022 compensation report. This is due to fewer research and teaching docs. and lower doctor saturation (true shortages across many specialties) thus each full time doc. per specialty is busier than interregional peers.

Also especially in the Midwest and portions of The West there are acute physician shortages varying by location and profession. One of my son's MD friends splits a job in a Western state with another doc. who lives in a third state. Bottom line though 3rd party contributions (a melange of state and federal money mostly) this guy makes $550K plus things like use of a house and car, plane tickets etc. etc. working three weeks per month with two months off. The same gig in Dallas would pay about $375-425 full time.

Another angle is how much work can a doc. tolerate vs. avg. patient load with and without insurance over time v. required local medical resources. FE a golf buddy is a hematology-oncology specialist who makes well north of $1MM per year, he invests with me so I know that for sure. However, he enjoys all of the backing of a world class cancer center and partnership, plenty of patients/20MM+ population with a 300 mile radius and he's an inveterate workaholic. Another example of this would be Dr. Willam Boothe in Plano who performed something like 135,000 lasik eye surgeries before retiring. Most likely neither would do/would have done as well in lower population areas.

Same general thing with nurses. Traveling and specialty nurses with the ability to move can do very well.



ETA - keep trying to post a link that refuses to work.

Good stuff my man. As you have shown there is simply no perfect formula that describes one has/will make more or less working in more populous or less populous areas.

[Leonard123]

I don't think the housing market, the topic of this thread, can be pinned down or disproportionately tied to any one industry or career field. I also don't think New York City is a valid comparison.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

I don't think the housing market, the topic of this thread, can be pinned down or disproportionately tied to any one industry or career field. I also don't think New York City is a valid comparison.

In some markets, like Austin and Houston, there is a single industry that has outsize impacts on the local housing market. That is not the case in DFW, because there's a whole range of industries, without a single dominant one, that pay employees well enough to create impacts.

[Rakin]

Conventional interest rates hit 7.375% and loan applications have dropped like a rock.

Funny thing is Jumbo rates are 5.875% and have been lower than normal rates for some time now. They used to be .5-1% higher.

[mikestrong]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Conventional interest rates hit 7.375% and loan applications have dropped like a rock.

Funny thing is Jumbo rates are 5.875% and have been lower than normal rates for some time now. They used to be .5-1% higher.

I just saw this. Thats crazy.