The DFW housing market is NOT sustainable (Dallas, Austin: rentals, hotel)

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

I really want to visit now. I have been told DFW is extremely sprawling. Even more than LA which is often compared to NYC, and said to be super sprawling.

How far out does the outermost edge of Metroplex extend from Downtown Dallas? I assume the higher paying white collar jobs are closer to city centers, while the lower end earners work further away.

How far is Leonard or Commerce from the edge of the Metroplex?

Re: sprawl, the “commutable” part of the metroplex extends from about Aledo to Rockwall, 75 miles west to east, and from Denton to Waxahachie, 70 miles north to south. That’s about 5200 square miles or roughly the same size as the entire state of Connecticut.

The random small towns you are asking about like Commerce and Leonard are well outside the DFW metroplex. You could possibly commute if your job was on the outer fringes of the metroplex but into downtown/uptown Dallas, you’re looking at 90-120 minute drive each way. I still don’t think you’re comprehending what it’s like to drive on a 2-lane state highway or country road for the first chunk of a commute….

DFW is interesting in that it has about 4 major white collar job centers - downtown Dallas, downtown Fort Worth, Las Colinas / Irving and the Legacy corridor of northwest Plano. There is also a tech-centric job corridor in Richardson, a finance job centric area in Dallas’ Preston Center, etc. Dallas, Denton & Fort Worth make a triangle - Dallas and FW being more traditional job cities and Denton being a college town and home to 2 major university campuses.

Like I said, I worked in a Fortune 500’s HQ in Plano for a decade and the very small handful of coworkers who were doing mega-commutes in from Sherman & further and it was a STRESSFUL 90 minute+ commute….that’s 3 hours a day of driving yourself to and from work. That’s $16ish / gas per day + about $6 in tolls - or more than the Most expensive, furthest out LIRR monthly pass….plus, you have to drive yourself as there are ZERO mass transit options.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

I really want to visit now. I have been told DFW is extremely sprawling. Even more than LA which is often compared to NYC, and said to be super sprawling.



How far out does the outermost edge of Metroplex extend from Downtown Dallas? I assume the higher paying white collar jobs are closer to city centers, while the lower end earners work further away.

How far is Leonard or Commerce from the edge of the Metroplex?

Dallas and Fort Worth are separate cities themselves, so you get double the sprawl. Most people I know hate sprawl.

You should be able to get an idea of size by looking at the Census Bureau's maps. You can measure distance and drives with Google Maps, though you might not want to use it to gauge driving times.
https://www2.census.gov/programs-sur...Texas_2020.pdf

It is definitely not the case that lower paid workers are farther out, and it's probably more the opposite. Celina and Melissa recently ranked among the ten wealthiest cities in Texas. Whether they'll stay that way remains to be seen. There is a limit though, and it really depends on the neighborhood. A lot of people no longer work in offices, at least not full time.

The largest concentration of higher paying jobs is probably in the established northern suburbs (Plano, Addison, and Irving) if not remote. However, the most affluent residents are right near the city center in the Park Cities, and they likely work in Dallas if they work at all outside the house.

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

How far out does the outermost edge of Metroplex extend from Downtown Dallas? I assume the higher paying white collar jobs are closer to city centers, while the lower end earners work further away.

How far is Leonard or Commerce from the edge of the Metroplex?

I think TurtleCreek's answer sounds about right. Aledo is about as far out on the west of what I'd consider DFW, and Rockwall is about as far east as I'd consider. However, that doesn't mean people in Rockwall or Aledo are willing to commute anywhere in the metroplex. Aledo to downtown Dallas everyday would be torture.

I'm not sure I'd assume the white collar jobs are mostly in downtown Dallas. I don't have specific numbers handy, but there are tons of well-paying white collar jobs in places like Plano. DFW is probably more decentralized in terms of jobs than some other large cities.

Keep in mind that most of the commutes from the outer fringes of DFW to any central part of DFW are pretty bad. You're talking about adding an extra 40-60 minutes on top of an already bad commute, not just a 40-60 minute commute.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

Here is a super interesting map. It superimposes the DFW Metroplex over various other cities, nation states, and US states. The Metro Plex is indeed massive. But some places that are smaller have much more or to same amount of people living in it.

https://mapfight.xyz/map/dallas.metro/

Actually it states Chicagoland is bigger than DFW, hmmm

I have read Wiki that DFW is bigger than Conn combined with RI. If you look on map of all the lower 48s, and take Conn/RI and move over to TX with Dallas in the middle, it does look like you would cover or get closer to Commerce, and Leonard, or Greenville. And that would make Paris a bit closer to the edge. Wiki even includes Hunt County as part of the Metroplex. I am just assuming though. You guys know better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas...orth_metroplex

Yet, those towns in the vids I posted do have people, and as it may be, the downtowns/commercial hub do seem to be void of activity. I imagine the people that do live in those towns, in fact, commute to the edge of the Metroplex for just about most everything including employment or at least to somewhere closer in that direction. Unless, there is another commercial hub, for those towns, that are not being shown.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

I think the whole DFW Metroplex can do a sort of Tour De France, or NYC bike marathon throughout the whole place. It is big enough.

Is there a city marathon or more like super marathon?

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

Here is a super interesting map. It superimposes the DFW Metroplex over various other cities, nation states, and US states. The Metro Plex is indeed massive. But some places that are smaller have much more or to same amount of people living in it.

https://mapfight.xyz/map/dallas.metro/

Actually it states Chicagoland is bigger than DFW, hmmm

I have read Wiki that DFW is bigger than Conn combined with RI. If you look on map of all the lower 48s, and take Conn/RI and move over to TX with Dallas in the middle, it does look like you would cover or get closer to Commerce, and Leonard, or Greenville. And that would make Paris a bit closer to the edge. Wiki even includes Hunt County as part of the Metroplex. I am just assuming though. You guys know better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas...orth_metroplex

Yet, those towns in the vids I posted do have people, and as it may be, the downtowns/commercial hub do seem to be void of activity. I imagine the people that do live in those towns, in fact, commute to the edge of the Metroplex for just about most everything including employment or at least to somewhere closer in that direction. Unless, there is another commercial hub, for those towns, that are not being shown.

I don’t know even know why I’m still commenting but here we go….

1. Other more populated cities have smaller land masses because they have denser housing. Try to find a 1/2 acre lot with a single family house on it in the city of Hong Kong, Barcelona, NYC, Miami, San Francisco, etc. Dallas’ huge population growth was all in post-WWII suburb building decades. Not before cars like America’s oldest, densest cities that built mid and high rises along street car or (later)subway lines and not land-locked like SF, Miami, Seattle, etc.

2. Hunt County is almost 900 square miles. It most likely considered “metroplex” because it’s in the DFW media market. The southeast part includes Royce City, what most would consider the furthest east bedroom community that is commutable. But Paris and Commerce are NOT commutable on a daily basis - they are on the opposite “corner” of the 900sq mile county. It’s like you’re saying, “everyone who lives in the Bronx can easily walk from their apartment across the 3rd Avenue bridge into Manhattan because the Bronx touches Manhattan”. Well it’s easy if you live in Mott Haven to do that in 10 minutes, but it would take 3 hours to walk there from North Riverdale on the opposite end of the Bronx. Do you see???

3. No, the vast majority of people living in places like Paris or Commerce don’t commute into DFW for work or most of their errands. Most people who live in small towns work there or nearby - there are public schools, Commerce is where Texas A&M has a secondary campus so that is a huge employer, Paris has a junior college, there are churches, city jobs (Paris has jobs posted for EMS, police officers, waste water plant mechanics, sanitation workers, street maintenance, etc). Then there are postal carriers, UPS / Amazon drivers, Wal-Marts & local grocery stores, plumbers, electricians, a good number of people work in agriculture, etc. Also some remote workers who might live on a family ranch or farm. I’m sure Commercr has a decent sized medical facility for northeast Texas. If not, Greenville does and is only 20 minutes away. Greenville also has a ton of bigger chain stores & restaurants. There is ZERO need to go into Dallas or any bigger suburb on any regular/weekly basis. There just isn’t.

Also of note is the low education levels. Only 80% of Paris adults graduated from high school and only 16% are college educated (vs 32% of the US). 24% live in poverty about double the US average. So it’s not like these the same kind employee base you find in the Dallas suburbs working white collar, high paying jobs.

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Re: sprawl, the “commutable” part of the metroplex extends from about Aledo to Rockwall, 75 miles west to east, and from Denton to Waxahachie, 70 miles north to south. That’s about 5200 square miles or roughly the same size as the entire state of Connecticut.

The random small towns you are asking about like Commerce and Leonard are well outside the DFW metroplex. You could possibly commute if your job was on the outer fringes of the metroplex but into downtown/uptown Dallas, you’re looking at 90-120 minute drive each way. I still don’t think you’re comprehending what it’s like to drive on a 2-lane state highway or country road for the first chunk of a commute….

DFW is interesting in that it has about 4 major white collar job centers - downtown Dallas, downtown Fort Worth, Las Colinas / Irving and the Legacy corridor of northwest Plano. There is also a tech-centric job corridor in Richardson, a finance job centric area in Dallas’ Preston Center, etc. Dallas, Denton & Fort Worth make a triangle - Dallas and FW being more traditional job cities and Denton being a college town and home to 2 major university campuses.

Like I said, I worked in a Fortune 500’s HQ in Plano for a decade and the very small handful of coworkers who were doing mega-commutes in from Sherman & further and it was a STRESSFUL 90 minute+ commute….that’s 3 hours a day of driving yourself to and from work. That’s $16ish / gas per day + about $6 in tolls - or more than the Most expensive, furthest out LIRR monthly pass….plus, you have to drive yourself as there are ZERO mass transit options.

The woman who cuts my hair commutes from Sherman to 635/Preston. That sort of commute is super-rare, but it doesn't bother her at all. I could never do it.

[serger]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

I think the whole DFW Metroplex can do a sort of Tour De France, or NYC bike marathon throughout the whole place. It is big enough.

Is there a city marathon or more like super marathon?

Have you seen a map of Tour de France?

[NJ Brazen_3133]

Originally Posted by serger

Have you seen a map of Tour de France?

I dont mean exactly. I just needed an example of a bike race. Tour de France is most well known.

[TheOverdog]

I dont mean exactly. I just needed an example of a bike race. Tour de France is most well known.

They are currently connecting a bunch of trails around DFW to provide a relatively continuous trail riding experience around DFW, but that won't be done for another ~ 20 years or so. IMO, an actual on-road ride around DFW would be fairly boring, since the terrain and build is fairly monotonous. Austin around the Hill Country would be a better option.