Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A little internet search turns up this. Top two college enrollment for graduates at:
Hockaday: UT, SMU (2012-2016)
Spence (NYC): Columbia, Penn (2016-2020)
Dalton (NYC): Harvard, Cornell (2016-2020)
GDS (DC): NYU, Wash U (2017-2020)
The fact that the DC and NYC schools put this on their website, but you have to find old, third party information for Hockaday speaks volumes (I couldn't find St Mark's).
most of this is a cultural difference between the Northeast/mid-Atlantic region vs Texas and not reflective of quality differences in the actual education provided in Texas private schools. kids who leave top private schools in DFW for Ivies and the like are incredibly well-prepared - on par with peers from the top boarding schools of the coasts. because I'm from the east coast and went to a top private liberal arts school, I want the same for my kids for cultural reasons. but I can also recognize that kids who grew up in Texas may have always wanted to go to UT for the business school or pre-med, or A&M for engineering, with the intention of living in Texas when they grow up. and I can't argue against that path from the perspective of education quality. will there be students at UT who are not that impressive academically? yes. will it ultimately matter much to the super bright kid who goes there from St Marks and does Plan 2? no.
most of this is a cultural difference between the Northeast/mid-Atlantic region vs Texas and not reflective of quality differences in the actual education provided in Texas private schools. kids who leave top private schools in DFW for Ivies and the like are incredibly well-prepared - on par with peers from the top boarding schools of the coasts. because I'm from the east coast and went to a top private liberal arts school, I want the same for my kids for cultural reasons. but I can also recognize that kids who grew up in Texas may have always wanted to go to UT for the business school or pre-med, or A&M for engineering, with the intention of living in Texas when they grow up. and I can't argue against that path from the perspective of education quality. will there be students at UT who are not that impressive academically? yes. will it ultimately matter much to the super bright kid who goes there from St Marks and does Plan 2? no.
Correct. Plus many of the Old Money Dallas graduates from Hockaday, St Mark’s, ESD are literally going to schools where their family names are on buildings. It’s not difficult to understand why Jerry Jones’ grandkids would pick Arkansas (where grandad & cousin were on the football team, and home of the Jerry & Gene Jones Student Athlete Center....a $10M donation) or why the Dedman girls might pick SMU (where the Dedman School of Law is named after their grandfather and where both parents graduated). I could go on for a few pages about the strong Dallas ties between UT, OU, Arkansas, SMU, etc. My friend went to Hockaday as a boarder. Her dad was the President of a state school and that’s where she went despite the fact she could have gotten into almost anywhere and was at the top of her class at Hockaday.
FWIW, another friend (top of his class at UT Business Honors) shocked Goldman’s NYC office by turning down the offer after his summer internship. He had always lived in Texas and still does 20 years later so aside from getting a taste of the NYC rat-race, he had no desire to jump into that world (neither did his then girlfriend, now wife).
Don't forget as well the Northeast obsession with having a degree from a name brand university (no Harvard graduate ever lets you forget it). Here in Texas there's more of a feeling that it's what you do with that degree, not just that you got ”Ve Ri Tas” on it. So many top students from St. Mark's for example will choose to go to UT. Right next to them - and with the same grades, SAT scores, and class rank - will be students who are early-admits at Stanford, Rice, MIT, etc.
It would also be instructive to look at where the bottom 20% of the class at SM matriculate vs. the bottom 20% from Phillips Andover, Middlesex, etc.
Don't forget as well the Northeast obsession with having a degree from a name brand university (no Harvard graduate ever lets you forget it). Here in Texas there's more of a feeling that it's what you do with that degree, not just that you got ”Ve Ri Tas” on it. So many top students from St. Mark's for example will choose to go to UT. Right next to them - and with the same grades, SAT scores, and class rank - will be students who are early-admits at Stanford, Rice, MIT, etc.
It would also be instructive to look at where the bottom 20% of the class at SM matriculate vs. the bottom 20% from Phillips Andover, Middlesex, etc.
Here are the Class of 2019 profiles for Andover and St Marks. That data reported is a little different but you can still extrapolate that the student bodies are equally remarkable at both schools. For reference, St Marks had 90 boys graduate, Andover had 332 (boys & girls).
AP Exams
St Marks= 86% scored a 4 or 5.
81 of 90 seniors took a combined 253 AP exams. (3.12 tests per student average)
Andover = 89% scored a 4 or 5.
Only 77 of 332 seniors took a combined 194 AP exams (2.51 tests per student average)
SAT Mid 50% range
Math
St Marks 710-790 (Mean 747)
Andover 690-790 (Mean 740)
Verbal
St Marks 700-770 (Mean 734)
Andover 670-760 (Mean 720)
Colleges with the highest # matriculating (Last 3 Years) St Marks
UT-Austin (39)
SMU (25)
Vanderbilt (17)
Texas A&M (11)
Penn (10)
Harvard (9)
Duke (9)
U Chicago (8)
Georgetown (7)
Andover (keep in mind their class size is 3.7X bigger than St Mark’s
Brown (30+)
Harvard (30+)
Tufts (30+)
U Chicago (30+)
Boston College (20-29)
Columbia (20-29)
Cornell (20-29)
MIT (20-29)
Princeton (20-29)
Stanford (20-29)
UPenn (20-29)
UVA (20-29)
Yale (20-29)
**those are the top matriculation schools. The next are the schools that appear on both lists:
Georgetown (10-19)
Duke (5-9)
Andover, MA is 24 miles north of Boston. Harvard, Tufts, Boston College, & MIT are all in the Boston metro area. Yale and Brown are both closer to Andover than UT is to Dallas. Obviously geography plays a huge role in college choices and school tradition. Of the top 13 schools for Andover grads, only Stanford , UChicago & UVA are outside the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic states.
On a per-capita basis, St Marks has equal matriculation at Harvard (would be 33 vs 30+ if St Marks was the size of Andover) and much stronger matriculation at Duke (9 vs 5-9...if St Mark’s was the size of Andover that would translate to 33 vs 5-9 over 3 years), Penn (10 vs 20-29, would be 37 if the same size) and Georgetown (7 vs 10-19, would be 26 if the same size).
Hi All,
This forum is so helpful when looking at schools. I truly believe there is a good fit for every child and family, whether it be a charter school, your public zoned school, a magnet school, a private school, a religious school etc. There are many threads regarding the specialty schools but I know some schools get overlooked. So I'm starting this thread for you to tell us where your child or children go to school, and three other things:
1.what you or your child like about the school, 2. what you or your child don't like about the school and
3. what is one thing someone considering the school should know.
This is for every type of school (public, private, specialty etc) as your answers can be so helpful for people moving here and reading, even when they don't get into the chat.
I'll start, with my personal experience:
Where two of my children are:
Dallas International School
1. We love the language immersion and the academic focus. It's hard not to love having a 7 year old that speaks French with a perfect accent. It's worldly and there are so many people from so many different walks of life that no one thing is seen as the "cool" thing, or the right way to be. Different perspectives are appreciated.
2. We don't love the upper grades campus, and that there are few activities outside of the academics (not a great art program, sports program, music program or theatre program. And the kids don't get much of an opportunity to explore these things when they're young to figure out what might make them jazz....)
3. You should know that the french system is a very structured system, for education. Instructors are usually very sweet in the younger maternelle "grades", but when the kids get older the instructors are generally stern and strict. There is not as much warmth as in the traditionally american school environment. This is my experience based on several International schools, not only this one. However I found this to be true at DIS.
Where my third child is:
Northhaven Co-op Preschool
1. It's nurturing and sweet. The teachers care about the little ones. It's a play-based school.
2. I wish there was more flexibility with how many days your child can attend. Starting at age 2, it's only 2 mornings a week, and gradually moves to 3- 4 mornings when your child is 5
3. It's a Co-Op preschool which means you will work in the classroom and help out at least once a month. I really enjoy that aspect and I like to see what's going on in the classroom. For parents with less work flexibility, that wouldn't work.
Bonus:
I went to Trinity Christian Academy (for 12 years)
1. It's a warm, loving, and caring environment. Children are generally happy there. Most of the faculty is dedicated and invested in the students--- a real rarity. There are a wide variety of passions for a child to find: they will explore playing instruments, singing, theatre, debate, speech, all sports, all different art forms, etc. If your kid is into sports, performing or visual arts, it's a great place to go to school as they can shine. They can find something they love to keep them excited about education.
2. It's dogmatic and legalistic. Extremely. There is a very narrow worldview and if you don't fit into that very strict frame as a student, it would be an absolutely miserable place to be.
3. If you are not a "born again christian" and dedicated to it, do not even consider this school. If your child doesn't ascribe to that religious blueprint as well, do not send them here. If your family does fit that profile, then you will probably adore the school, the staff and the education that your children get. For the born-again set, this school environment can't really be matched.
Ok, your turn! I want to hear about the schools you and your children have experience with.
We are in one of the top three dallas privates mentioned quite a bit on this thread - and admits girls. In the interests of not outing myself that is all I will say. The top three schools are very connected, so much so that I do not think my not being more specific will take anything away from what I say.
The academic benefits of our school have been touted enough on this thread I will not harp on about those- I’ll stick to what I see as cons/things to note that aren’t mentioned much here.
1) Diversity is a big goal for our school. It takes great care to highlight that we admit from all over and all walks of life. What that looks like on the playground and in class is heart warming. However, outside of school hours, If your child’s friends live outside of whatever bubble you’re in - that friendship will take effort on your part to sustain outside of school e.g by driving across town to and from playdates etc if the kids do not live in the same general area. Sometimes this is not possible or does not work out which escalates into quiet but palpable issues between parents and less frequently the kids themselves. Friendships across city lines are possible and and do happen but not without significant effort and buy-in from parents on either side. Parents new to private schools should expect and plan for this.
2) Compared to private schools elsewhere charging about the same amount in tuition- Dallas privates dont seem to offer much outside of academics for their lower grades. There’s not much by way of enrichment and when its offered its typically, outsourced, minimal in benefit and at additional cost. For the money one would think the all studrnts would get substantial use of the facilities weaved into the curriculum but they, for the most part do not. When they do its typically for a very truncated time or an event. Outside of libraries, the “showcase” facilities are mostly for the use of the Upper and middle schools.
Those are the two main things I think are beneficial to highlight. No system is perfect, one has to balance the pros with the cons. Private school is a commitment and one should examine all factors before committing to the decision ( Or have a decent back-up )
most of this is a cultural difference between the Northeast/mid-Atlantic region vs Texas and not reflective of quality differences in the actual education provided in Texas private schools. kids who leave top private schools in DFW for Ivies and the like are incredibly well-prepared - on par with peers from the top boarding schools of the coasts. because I'm from the east coast and went to a top private liberal arts school, I want the same for my kids for cultural reasons. but I can also recognize that kids who grew up in Texas may have always wanted to go to UT for the business school or pre-med, or A&M for engineering, with the intention of living in Texas when they grow up. and I can't argue against that path from the perspective of education quality. will there be students at UT who are not that impressive academically? yes. will it ultimately matter much to the super bright kid who goes there from St Marks and does Plan 2? no.
Given that this thread seems to have deviated from its original intent to the same ole waxing poetic about private school, then I have no shame replying that UT Engineering > A&M Engineering \m/_
Here are the Class of 2019 profiles for Andover and St Marks. That data reported is a little different but you can still extrapolate that the student bodies are equally remarkable at both schools. For reference, St Marks had 90 boys graduate, Andover had 332 (boys & girls).
AP Exams
St Marks= 86% scored a 4 or 5.
81 of 90 seniors took a combined 253 AP exams. (3.12 tests per student average)
Andover = 89% scored a 4 or 5.
Only 77 of 332 seniors took a combined 194 AP exams (2.51 tests per student average)
SAT Mid 50% range
Math
St Marks 710-790 (Mean 747)
Andover 690-790 (Mean 740)
Verbal
St Marks 700-770 (Mean 734)
Andover 670-760 (Mean 720)
It's well known that these tests showcase parental wealth more than student achievement. What your data set highlights is that these tests do very little to distinguish between students with high HHI. And knowing these results the DFW private school college matriculation is just terrible compared to what peer schools in other larger metros are accomplishing AND compared to what you could expect a high income, decent student to achieve at any large suburban public school.
It's clear that DFW private schools are about insulating your children and not about advancing them. That's what any relocating parents who read this thread should take away.
<snip: questionable statements about standard tests and AP courses>...the DFW private school college matriculation is just terrible compared to what peer schools in other larger metros are accomplishing AND compared to what you could expect a high income, decent student to achieve at any large suburban public school.
It's clear that DFW private schools are about insulating your children and not about advancing them. That's what any relocating parents who read this thread should take away.
You are making two unsupported assumptions:
1) That the purpose of a private secondary school education is to attend a name brand university and that every student who doesn't do so constitutes a failure of the school;
2) That students from DFW high end private schools want to attend and apply to name brand universities and are turned down at much higher rates than students from high end private schools elsewhere.
I disagree with the first, and we haven't seen the data on the second.
What is funny is the reputation SMU has among the rich in Southern California. Its basically known as a party school for the rich that didnt have great grades. In Texas, its different.
Well, there's no question that there is a certain population of rich kid frat boys majoring in booze and chicks and minoring in bidness (till they flunk out) at SMU.
For real majors, and real students, it's a fine university of the middle rank.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
