Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You sound quite interesting- welcome back to the area. Let me say your post struck me the wrong way because you said you "truly believe" that one of [insert every type of school] can be a good fit for a child. And you mentioned TCA so I assumed you were, like, fighting home schoolers or other evangelical mindsets.
I will take this opportunity to point out that kids from your neighborhood public schools (presumably Hillcrest or White since you got into Booker T) got into all of the schools you mentioned over the last 20 years. I admire that you put out there how much privilege you grew up with and because of that you likely know that your typical private school grad in DFW goes to a flagship state school or a regional private school-- just like the typical grad from every Dallas area school with an HHI of $150k+.
Those types of schools are jokes to the grads of elite private schools in the other major metro areas of the country - our privates seemed geared towards social status and religious fundamentalism. To me those reasons are a waste of money, find a neighborhood you like and send your kids to school with the kids that live there. If the school isn't "good enough", take your substantial human capital and make it good enough.
Which are the schools that you think are jokes? My feeling is that the "elite" privates here (Hock, SM, Greenhill) are on par with private schools in other major metros.
Those types of schools are jokes to the grads of elite private schools in the other major metro areas of the country - our privates seemed geared towards social status and religious fundamentalism. To me those reasons are a waste of money, find a neighborhood you like and send your kids to school with the kids that live there. If the school isn't "good enough", take your substantial human capital and make it good enough.
That's almost complete nonsense.
You either don't know much about the DFW private school scene or your biases are clouding your logic. People from La Jolla Prep and Lauranceville are not laughing at Saint Marks. Hockaday, Cisterican or Greenhill.
Your smearing of local private school kids because of their choices in undergraduate education is low information at best.
Most DFW private schools are a bad 'bang for the buck' relative to other metro areas. And in general, they're a bad value compared to generica public high schools when considering college matriculation. Anyone who can afford your kids school would be better off college wise just going to public school Flower Mound or Colleyville, 99% of the time.
I would like you to elaborate on this statement, add some stats to it too, with links.
You sound quite interesting- welcome back to the area. Let me say your post struck me the wrong way because you said you "truly believe" that one of [insert every type of school] can be a good fit for a child. And you mentioned TCA so I assumed you were, like, fighting home schoolers or other evangelical mindsets.
I will take this opportunity to point out that kids from your neighborhood public schools (presumably Hillcrest or White since you got into Booker T) got into all of the schools you mentioned over the last 20 years. I admire that you put out there how much privilege you grew up with and because of that you likely know that your typical private school grad in DFW goes to a flagship state school or a regional private school-- just like the typical grad from every Dallas area school with an HHI of $150k+.
Those types of schools are jokes to the grads of elite private schools in the other major metro areas of the country - our privates seemed geared towards social status and religious fundamentalism. To me those reasons are a waste of money, find a neighborhood you like and send your kids to school with the kids that live there. If the school isn't "good enough", take your substantial human capital and make it good enough.
I came on here to respond as the others--- that I'm pretty sure St. Marks, Hockaday and Cistercian aren't jokes nationally. They are seen on par with Harvard Westlake, Exeter etc. And whether or not it's nice to admit it, yes, I do believe that an admissions director at Harvard or Yale is probably going to look at a student from St. Marks differently, and perhaps more thoroughly, than a student from Hillcrest. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. But of course you don't have to go to St. Mark's to get into an Ivy or any great school. In the end there is alot more to it than just the high school you are applying from, but it does play a factor.
As for your other thought: I am DEFINITELY a proponent of homeschooling (and more so, unschooling) but that does not really help parents on this board when they are seeking schools for their children. Kids are unique. Maybe TCA doesn't work for little Johny, but maybe Booker T or TAG or Cistercian might. Hence my desire to hear about all the schools I might have missed in my research. First hand. Websites and tours are nice but there is quite a bit more truth from parents or children that have actually had an experience with a school and campus.
And I guess we can agree to disagree on the "worth" aspect. If you want a biblical education for your kids, you might think 150K is absolutely worth it, and not give a rats ass about college. Not how I want to spend my dough currently, but to each his own.
I wanted to clarify my earlier response to this, as I came upon some new information. It may not interest you, but I have a feeling that it may interest other parents thinking about Dallas privates and the benefits.
My brother who was admitted to Stanford, Princeton and Yale was also admitted to Harvard, Amherst and Vanderbilt, with offers to play football and Princeton, Yale, Amherst and Vanderbilt. I feel that is an important clarification because it further represents the potential value of private school education if one hopes to attend one of these colleges.
For what it's worth, when he told his guidance (or college admissions) counselor, he was told to also apply to UT in case he got into none of these schools. I believe that person was quite shocked when he gained admission to all six. Clearly he is a remarkable individual but I do not think he would have had the same result if he had applied from our zoned high school. Just my gut feeling on that.
This brother, and my other one, went on to also gain post graduate degrees at very highly respected Universities, and turn that into very, very lucrative careers. In terms of finances, their educational costs have been more than accounted for.
I realize these are unique circumstances and people (with the afore mentioned amount of privilege).
But for what its worth...
Which are the schools that you think are jokes? My feeling is that the "elite" privates here (Hock, SM, Greenhill) are on par with private schools in other major metros.
For clarification, the schools the majority of the grads of our private high schools go to as a default are jokes to the grads of nationally regarded private schools-- OU and Baylor, etc. There is nothing wrong with flagship state schools and regional privates, but a) you can get into them from any high school (especially if you can pay full tuition) and b) the grads of elite independent schools like Dalton, Sidwell, or St Ann's consider them jokes.
I guess the debate is really to ask: what are you paying for? Are you paying for some nebulous definition of your child's "happiness" or are you seeking a leg up in the meritocracy? IMO, you can never really buy your child's happiness and seeking to do so by overly controlling the world around them is a fool's errand. And if you are seeking a leg up in the meritocracy I would politely suggest that you are doing it wrong. The Tiger moms in Collin County are much better at it than the white moms in Preston Hollow. For every OPs brother there are a dozen racist OU fraternity brothers. (For the record, I got into OU! I bought into the prevailing culture of Dallas and chose a flagship state school over a NESCAC school where no one I knew had ever gone.)
A little internet search turns up this. Top two college enrollment for graduates at:
Hockaday: UT, SMU (2012-2016)
Spence (NYC): Columbia, Penn (2016-2020)
Dalton (NYC): Harvard, Cornell (2016-2020)
GDS (DC): NYU, Wash U (2017-2020)
The fact that the DC and NYC schools put this on their website, but you have to find old, third party information for Hockaday speaks volumes (I couldn't find St Mark's).
A little internet search turns up this. Top two college enrollment for graduates at:
Hockaday: UT, SMU (2012-2016)
Spence (NYC): Columbia, Penn (2016-2020)
Dalton (NYC): Harvard, Cornell (2016-2020)
GDS (DC): NYU, Wash U (2017-2020)
The fact that the DC and NYC schools put this on their website, but you have to find old, third party information for Hockaday speaks volumes (I couldn't find St Mark's).
I get your point ... the Dallas schools may or may not be great but that the colleges that the graduates attend are not as impressive. I will say that the Saint Mark's list is different and is pretty impressive. I think part of this is societal/ cultural (Dallas vs NYC), part is that SUNY is not as well regarded as UT, part is "follow the money" to get a good deal even though you had enough to pay for private school. It would be interesting to look at say, Atlanta schools (Westminster, Lovett etc) or other "flyover" cities and see if they are more like Dallas or NYC.
For clarification, the schools the majority of the grads of our private high schools go to as a default are jokes to the grads of nationally regarded private schools-- OU and Baylor, etc. There is nothing wrong with flagship state schools and regional privates, but a) you can get into them from any high school (especially if you can pay full tuition) and b) the grads of elite independent schools like Dalton, Sidwell, or St Ann's consider them jokes.
I guess the debate is really to ask: what are you paying for? Are you paying for some nebulous definition of your child's "happiness" or are you seeking a leg up in the meritocracy? IMO, you can never really buy your child's happiness and seeking to do so by overly controlling the world around them is a fool's errand. And if you are seeking a leg up in the meritocracy I would politely suggest that you are doing it wrong. The Tiger moms in Collin County are much better at it than the white moms in Preston Hollow. For every OPs brother there are a dozen racist OU fraternity brothers. (For the record, I got into OU! I bought into the prevailing culture of Dallas and chose a flagship state school over a NESCAC school where no one I knew had ever gone.)
Ah, I see. I think you have more of an issue with the DFW private school culture, which generally ushers students into expensive but not academically challenging private colleges (like Baylor) by the handful.
That feels valid to me.
One thing that is probably a key point here is that many Dallas area parents want to keep their children close to home for college rather than having them go to the coasts, because the likelihood of them remaining catholic/christian/republican etc. is much higher if they stay close by and go to Baylor, A&M, SMU or even OU. Keep them in the South and they'll keep their southern values. Thus the parents (and teachers) rarely encourage them to reach out any farther than that.
But I do think that's a different discussion than whether or not the cost of the private k-12 is worth it. Likely in those families, their children (after going to Baylor) are now grown with kids of their own, and dutifully sending them through the same TCA life path.... and so then, they've gotten out of it exactly what they had hoped to. Still money well spent from their viewpoint...
Ah, I see. I think you have more of an issue with the DFW private school culture, which generally ushers students into expensive but not academically challenging private colleges (like Baylor) by the handful.
That feels valid to me.
One thing that is probably a key point here is that many Dallas area parents want to keep their children close to home for college rather than having them go to the coasts, because the likelihood of them remaining catholic/christian/republican etc. is much higher if they stay close by and go to Baylor, A&M, SMU or even OU. Keep them in the South and they'll keep their southern values. Thus the parents (and teachers) rarely encourage them to reach out any farther than that.
But I do think that's a different discussion than whether or not the cost of the private k-12 is worth it. Likely in those families, their children (after going to Baylor) are now grown with kids of their own, and dutifully sending them through the same TCA life path.... and so then, they've gotten out of it exactly what they had hoped to. Still money well spent from their viewpoint...
That is extremely insightful, thank you. I have not heard that voiced before and see many people hiding behind wanting a school that is "best for the children". So the debate turns towards trying to prove superior academics, but what you wrote makes MUCH more sense.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
