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How long ago? Current data says otherwise as I noted above Payscale.com says locally at the 10th percentile CNA pay is $10.01.
ETA - I just looked at several sources again, FWIIW this is at least the second time PV has made this claim in the last couple of days. It's just false.
Ok so talked to the wife about this. EDS you are right on this technically.
I was off. She started at $10 per hour in 2010 and ended at $10.90 in 2014 when she became a nurse, receiving 20 cent raises on average each year.
Fast forward to today, she’s now a nurse manager for a unit at her hospital so she hires nurses and CNAs. On her unit, (not the entire hospital) she has CNAs making from as low as $12 to as high as $22 per hour. The ones making in the 20s have been CNAs for well over 20 years.
She says there have been talks of trying to raise the pay of CNAs to combat the massive turnover that this hospital is facing...who would have guessed.
Also, hospitals generally pay higher. The pay is usually lower at nursing homes and rehabs.
CNA is a low-skill job and you get clinical experience while you work towards LPN or RN.
McDonald’s fry cook does not have such career paths. No one quits CNA and becomes a burger flipper.
McDonald’s in Dallas are also well funded. You still need to pay when you get a cheeseburger.
Not so much for Parkland which is running a deficit and provides free services.
70% of the women who gave birth at Parkland Hospital are illegal immigrants. That's 2006, reported by DMN and Washington Post.
A few things
My wife didn’t work at Parkland.
Are you saying that fast food workers should make the same as CNAs? There is a world of difference between the two. A 16 year old school kid with zero experience/training/credentials could get a job in fast food. To become a CNA, you have to take a course (ranging in time commitment from 4-10 weeks) and then pass an exam. So there is some barrier to entry. CNAs play an important role in patient care, and to me it’s mind boggling that it pays as much as the 16 year old whose sole job is to sit at the window and ask if you want to supersize your order. YMMV
A few things
My wife didn’t work at Parkland.
Are you saying that fast food workers should make the same as CNAs? There is a world of difference between the two. A 16 year old school kid with zero experience/training/credentials could get a job in fast food. To become a CNA, you have to take a course (ranging in time commitment from 4-10 weeks) and then pass an exam. So there is some barrier to entry. CNAs play an important role in patient care, and to me it’s mind boggling that it pays as much as the 16 year old whose sole job is to sit at the window and ask if you want to supersize your order. YMMV
That is true. But the previous posters belief that CNA is a "low skilled job" is part of the reason the pay won't go any higher.
CNAs do have to go through a training program and pass a test with a state examiner.
CNAs have to lift and move patients, be exposed to deadly contagious disease and all kinds of waste matter and body fluids.
Yes. Not only that, but CNAs are expected to go back & forth into a burning building to evacuate residents, if the building ever caught on fire. While being paid $10 an hour.
All the CNAs I know earn between 9 and 10 an hour (they are usually here from other countries). The CNAs who work in the hospital earn 11 an hour. And there is evidence that the pay is going down even lower.
I worked as a CNA in Dallas for years. Yes many earn only $9 an hour, at skilled medical facilities. Yet, you claim they are lying about their wages. Why would they lie?
What is your experience as a CNA?
Not only do many CNAs earn that low, but many nursing homes are trying to use volunteers to do free work (and it's not working out well and also presents problems with HIPAA rules and regulations).
A few things
My wife didn’t work at Parkland.
Are you saying that fast food workers should make the same as CNAs? There is a world of difference between the two. A 16 year old school kid with zero experience/training/credentials could get a job in fast food. To become a CNA, you have to take a course (ranging in time commitment from 4-10 weeks) and then pass an exam. So there is some barrier to entry. CNAs play an important role in patient care, and to me it’s mind boggling that it pays as much as the 16 year old whose sole job is to sit at the window and ask if you want to supersize your order. YMMV
Again, it's not what one should make, but it's what employers can offer.
Most public hospitals like Parkland are stuck with severe budget deficit. Taxpayers foot most of the bill, and hospital employees eat the remaining loss. If a hospital losses millions of dollars a year, what do you think the lower-level employees can make?
It's also highly dependent on the supply of labor.
CNA do have a high turnover rate, but more candidates are coming. American Nurses Association has been lobbying for years in all 50 states, allowing dreamers and illegal immigrants to take nursing exam and get license. Nursing is indeed an ideal job for these people and I don't see the wage going up anytime soon.
All the CNAs I know earn between 9 and 10 an hour (they are usually here from other countries).
It seems that you've already noticed the issue. If people from other countries can pass the 4-10-week training and happily accepts $9-10/hr, why is it necessary to raise the wage?
I'm as much of a capitalist as anyone, but when people like you explain away and justify inequality, poor pay for essential services etc they make capitalism less and less appealing to the less ideologically inclined.
I mean I think you should be able to keep your wealth out of principal, even if you are a jerk, but I'm sure lots of people don't see it that way.
This is how we end up with someone like Bernie. I blame people like you.
The fact that you are an old rich white guy lecturing people and who comes off as elitist and apathetic to the struggles of others doesn't make your ideas appealing. Honestly, you think of yourself as an independent thinker and a maverick, but you're takes are the same as all your other WASP peers. I mean that's fine and all, it is what is to be expected, but it doesn't sell your ideas.
Whatever success you have enjoyed in your life, I'm going to take a wild guess as suggest it wasn't in any form of sales.
You argue about the wrong things. $10.01 vs $9 ? Fine, but both are terrible. Neither are wages you could live on. You'll live and die by the $1.01 on this one because details matter, but you are missing the important details.
Bottom line, people who work as CNA are very much underpaid. We take advantage of them and EMTs because they don't do it for the money, they do it because they care about people.
It's complicated, but brushing it off is a bad look. Pretending it isn't a problem or arguing about the specifics of the bad wages won't help your cause. Admit we underpay, full stop.
I mean you are the one who has the most to lose. Fail to sell you vision and people will take your wealth away. No one will care about you bragging about how successful as they take more of your money. You won't come off as a sympathetic victim. "It was $10.01, not $9" won't do you any good at that point.
I mean, the irony is I actually agree with more of your takes than I disagree with, I just don't like your style, it doesn't help our, your, cause.
You come off as just being defensive of the status quo, which is fair, you are old and wealthy, it worked for you, why change it. Fair enough, but that isn't a good selling point. Really the main thing I disagree with you on are about urban structure, but loving cars and suburban style development is to be expected of an old Dallas native, so whatever.
Call that bitter, but I'm just trying to prevent the Bernie bros from taking you to the proverbial guillotine, dude.
Or maybe you think arguing about $10.01 vs $9 and bragging to strangers on the internet that you think you made more money than them at their age is the way to sell people. Who knows.
TV,
I find myself with mixed feelings about all this. Let me explain
Like I said earlier, I’m honestly not sure why CNAs make so little. I know my wife complains that they never have enough on the floor yet she’s prevented from hiring more. That being said, I do think a lot of people making minimum wage could get out of that situation, but for whatever reason choose not to.
Take CNAs for example. My wife’s hospital will pay the entire tuition costs for any CNA wishing to attend nursing school, all the way down to the textbooks AND offer a full time nursing job at market rate upon completion. This is the exact path my wife took to get an RN degree free of charge. Yet participation in the program is low, to the point that there were a couple of years they had to suspend the program for lack of interest.
So when I hear CNAS at my wife’s job complaining about low pay, they at least have a way out yet choose not to use it. It’s why the crap pay for CNAs was more annoying to us than anything, because it was a means to an end not the final result. Since becoming manager, my wife has made it a point to encourage as many as possible to get into the program. Some have legitimate reasons such as being single mothers with no relatives to help out, but an equal number have no such constraints and just don’t want the extra work involved.
Same at my job. I’m an accountant. We have clerks who I’ve been trying to mentor to go to school and get their accounting degrees. A couple are looking into it but a few others say no. Too much work.
Again, I’m not saying this is the case for all minimum wage earners, but I suspect a sizable chunk.
As we all know, any job that pays well will in all likelihood require a ton of blood sweat and tears to accomplish. If you don’t want to do the work well you can’t complain about the results.
I'm as much of a capitalist as anyone, but when people like you explain away and justify inequality, poor pay for essential services etc they make capitalism less and less appealing to the less ideologically inclined.
I mean I think you should be able to keep your wealth out of principal, even if you are a jerk, but I'm sure lots of people don't see it that way.
This is how we end up with someone like Bernie. I blame people like you.
The fact that you are an old rich white guy lecturing people and who comes off as elitist and apathetic to the struggles of others doesn't make your ideas appealing. Honestly, you think of yourself as an independent thinker and a maverick, but you're takes are the same as all your other WASP peers. I mean that's fine and all, it is what is to be expected, but it doesn't sell your ideas.
Whatever success you have enjoyed in your life, I'm going to take a wild guess as suggest it wasn't in any form of sales.
You argue about the wrong things. $10.01 vs $9 ? Fine, but both are terrible. Neither are wages you could live on. You'll live and die by the $1.01 on this one because details matter, but you are missing the important details.
Bottom line, people who work as CNA are very much underpaid. We take advantage of them and EMTs because they don't do it for the money, they do it because they care about people.
It's complicated, but brushing it off is a bad look. Pretending it isn't a problem or arguing about the specifics of the bad wages won't help your cause. Admit we underpay, full stop.
I mean you are the one who has the most to lose. Fail to sell you vision and people will take your wealth away. No one will care about you bragging about how successful as they take more of your money. You won't come off as a sympathetic victim. "It was $10.01, not $9" won't do you any good at that point.
I mean, the irony is I actually agree with more of your takes than I disagree with, I just don't like your style, it doesn't help our, your, cause.
You come off as just being defensive of the status quo, which is fair, you are old and wealthy, it worked for you, why change it. Fair enough, but that isn't a good selling point. Really the main thing I disagree with you on are about urban structure, but loving cars and suburban style development is to be expected of an old Dallas native, so whatever.
Call that bitter, but I'm just trying to prevent the Bernie bros from taking you to the proverbial guillotine, dude.
Or maybe you think arguing about $10.01 vs $9 and bragging to strangers on the internet that you think you made more money than them at their age is the way to sell people. Who knows.
I probably would agree with you on a lot of things if we were to grab a cup of coffee, but there were a few things about this post that got me:
1. EDS was actually saying the median pay is $12 per hour, not $10.01. The $10.01 figure was the 10th percentile. Maybe that $3 difference still doesn't matter for you, but I thought I should point out that it's actually $12.
2. As a likely Bernie voter (unless Yang somehow hangs on until election day), I don't like the characterization that Bernie is aiming to take anyone's wealth. A progressive (and I mean this in the strict sense, not a normative sense) tax plan is not the same thing as taking people's wealth.
3. CNAs are in a weird spot. Many CNAs are either in or planning to do nursing school, and CNA experience is viewed as good experience to have, so there's an abundance of workers who don't care too much about the pay. It's like how surgical residents only make $50k even though they are doing surgery on people (admittedly to varying degrees). A four year degree plus medical school plus multiple years of on-the-job training seems like it would be worth more than $50k per year, but most of the workers are in it for a payoff other than money (and yes, I get that residencies are training, but CNAs have a similar effect with future RNs).
4. Various jobs don't pay more or less than other jobs because they are gross or demanding. They pay more than other jobs because market forces require employers to offer more for them. To me, it's not a problem that CNAs don't make more than burger flippers. What is a problem to me is that neither is really a livable wage. There are two responses to this. First, we can require employers to pay more (raise minimum wage). The problem with this is that it will inevitably lead to employers seeking ways to hire fewer people, and fewer jobs will be available. The other option is to have the government make up for some of the difference, and that's what we currently do through our tax structure. I'd personally like to see this approach expanded (hence my Bernie and Yang support), but it's of course a political fight.
A lot of wealthy people are way off in their views on this stuff, though. We have to recognize right up front that there are not enough jobs that pay a livable wage. The "work hard, stay in school" answer is great advice for an individual person, but that is not a response to the societal problem. There aren't enough jobs available down that path to fill the need if everyone took that path. We've seen the start of this with the devaluing of college degrees in recent years. As automation and technology progress, there will be even fewer of these jobs.
It seems that you've already noticed the issue. If people from other countries can pass the 4-10-week training and happily accepts $9-10/hr, why is it necessary to raise the wage?
Because there is a shortage of CNAs and a growing demand for them. It is not a "saturated" job field by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots of saturated job fields out there, but this definitely isn't one of them.
Also, the baby boomer population is aging and we will need even more CNAs in the coming years. If wages for CNAs aren't raised we're going to have a huge healthcare crisis.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the job is expected to grow faster than average.
I worked PRN as a CNA and they'd call me all hours of the day and during the night begging me to work. If I wanted to go back, they'd hire me on the spot. Getting hired isn't an issue for CNAs. Getting decent pay is.
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