Is Pueblo that bad? (Denver, Colorado Springs: credit, loan, homes)

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by hollyt00

I remember reading somewhere that Pueblo Community College is one of the best community colleges in the nation. Currently am trying to retrieve that *or* refute it. Found it: https://www.pueblocc.edu/News/PCC_ra...alysis_report/ . Not first, but fourth, and article was three years ago.

I've always also been fairly impressed with CSU-Pueblo. They have a (very) good football team, and when I did a staff development there, I was very impressed with their Spanish department and the strides they have made to help native speakers. After our meeting we had a lovely lunch at the riverwalk.

The little I know about Pueblo I think the rating sounds a bit off. And that is even taking in consideration the rivalry that the Springs and Pueblo residents typically seem to have for each other.

I agree with what you said here.

Originally Posted by hollyt00

McGowdog, I've always felt that the local news doesn't do enough for all the areas it covers. Just every once in a while we seem to get a report about a slopper or maybe some green chili, or some crime. It reminds me why (one of many reasons) I stopped buying the Denver Post- always too much about Denver/Boulder and not enough Colorado. Local news focuses too much on Colorado Springs, when it's labeled news for Colorado Springs/Pueblo.

The biggest issue I have with Pueblo is we live in a duel media market for television news and unlike most duel media markets the top two metros have very little in common. Also, being the smaller city in said market Pueblo gets ignored. For most of my life it was ok as KOAA was located in and broadcasted from Pueblo on "the big hill". That plus PBS being here (yes no news but had local programming) gave Pueblo 2 stations and the Springs had 2 then later fox. All that changed a few years ago when KOAA moved its operations to the Springs in "the big switch" then expect Pueblo to watch arguing "where the station is located should not matter". Well if it did not matter why spend the money and time it takes to move a entire station to another city? So I stopped watching them. Do I miss having a local station? Sure but this is 2018 so between the local paper and internet and Facebook I get news faster then I ever did so in reality other then missing out on the cute live reports local stations do I actually get my news faster now then I ever have.

As a side note I have always been known as the Puebloan who hates the Springs. I have now realized that is not the case. Sure the rivalry is fun but beyond that my issue was never with the Springs itself but living in the duel media market. I never really realized that till KOAA moved and forced me to get my news completely from other sources. Once I did then I saw the Springs like I see Denver, Fort Collins, Boulder. Some aspects I like of each city and some I do not like and sure I would like Pueblo to grow like they are but I do not hate them and like the economic direction Pueblo is going anyway with its 6 core industries (marijuana/hemp, rail, steel, green energy, medical, and tourism). So ya I am a much different person now on this issue then I was even just a few years ago.

[TCHP]

Pueblo is a neat place. I've often said it is like 1975 only with computers and cell phones. There are a large number of historic neighborhoods, yet it still has new growth, and it still has some great neighborhood feels to it in various places. There are restaurants, businesses and markets that have disappeared in other places in CO that still remain in Pueblo. As the Arkansas River leaves the city it creates a great rural/farming zone outside the city that provides real small town feel to it with great opportunities for field to table coops and numerous markets. It has always done a good job at promoting its positive aspects in the media whether it was the Sangre De Christo Art Center, PBS, the State Fair, Neon Alley, USC (as it used to be known when it was independent), or Lake Pueblo State Park.

What a lot of newer CO residents don't know is that Pueblo was CO's second largest city for most of the 20th century. It had a greater cross section of ethnic neighborhoods than probably any other city for most of that time. It wasn't until the mid '70s that Colo Spgs bypassed it in population. Since then Pueblo has grown around 13,000 people (the natural birth rate is around 4-5%, so true growth is only half of that 10%). By contrast, Colo Spgs has grown 329,000 people (not all of it is military and Denver commuters, BTW). I think that doesn't sit well with a number of older Puebloans. There is still a significant attitude in a number of places in Pueblo that if you don't live in Pueblo, you are suspect, and if you aren't a CO native, you aren't worth doing business with at all. Even when Pueblo gets a handle on crime and improves its public schools, this attitude is going to make growth difficult for some time to come.

No doubt KOAA moving out ticked off a lot of locals. FWIW, IMO, all the network broadcast stations in Colo Spgs stink. Their local coverage is lousy, they thrive on sensationalism and when there isn't any around, they create issues. I can find out as much about what is going on in other parts of the country as what is happening here. Frankly, I could care less about the latest goof ball story out of CA that gets put in high rotation with our local stations. My watching habits with all of them have declined significantly over the last couple of decades.

Like Joss, I've been in a lot of different Pueblo neighborhoods and never felt like I was in danger. To McGownDog's point, it wasn't late at night either, so perhaps some are dangerous. Pueblo is a predominately blue collar, heavy industrial manufacturing city. There are a lot of people these days who are afraid of that persona. As I pointed out from the OP's article, Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Miami, and Memphis all share that list with Pueblo and they seem to be growing and desirable. Pueblo could be too.

IMO, Pueblo and Colo Spgs need to work better together to generate economic growth opportunities like those seen in Denver and northern CO. With all the complaints about growth, congestion, cost, fracking, so on and so forth, southern CO could really leverage its position to become more attractive. But that needs to be a cooperative effort and its going to take time.

[Josseppie]

^

I wonder how many people still watch KOAA in Pueblo now. Honestly I could not tell you who the anchors are.

In terms of future growth I use to want Pueblo to be the largest city in the state. While I do think long run we will be among the largest in the short run (say 20 to 40 years out) with all that is going on 250,000 to 500,000 people is possible and that is ok growth for me.

[Mike from back east]

Major population growth in Pueblo is not going to happen.

Job and income growth are needed to support population growth -- and we don't have that.

U.S. population growth is only 0.62% as measured from July 2017 to July 2018, and that's in a good economy.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

^ Not going to happen.

Job and income growth are needed to support population growth -- and we don't have that.

U.S. population growth is only 0.62% as measured from July 2017 to July 2018, and that's in a good economy.

Agreed. Pueblo's days of being a major player ended a good half-century ago. It's got way too many things going against it. The city is poorly located, and its economy has been stagnant for far too long.

I do think that with TABOR strangling the government the city will eventually lose the state fair. It'll either move to the renovated NWSS grounds in Denver where it can attract a larger audience or be shut down altogether.

[Josseppie]

Pueblo county is 165,000 people at present. 250,000 people to 500,000 people in 20-40 years is not unrealistic. Long run is over 100 years.

The state fair is safe. Denver wants it but wil never get it.

[Mike from back east]

At our national growth rate of 0.62% per year, that's 1,023 people per year. On a straight line basis it will take about 75-90 years to reach 250,000 and about 200-250 years to reach 500,000, if ever.

[Josseppie]

Historically Pueblo grew faster then the national average. Then the economic collapse hit. Now with the 6 core industries growing I think Pueblo will once again grow faster then the national average.

[TCHP]

CO's average growth rate is over twice that of the rest of the nation annually. Granted, Pueblo was no where near that and may actually be half of the national average. But, given a few correcting factors in the right direction, the next decade could bring Pueblo up to national growth figures and possibly match growth of other Front Range areas.

While Pueblo lacks a cross roads of interstates like what is seen in Denver, it does have rail access that is nearly as good as Denver and significantly better than Colo Spgs. Sitting on a major CO watershed isn't a bad deal either.

Where I think Pueblo will take it on the chin is if growth significantly accelerates. When that happens, they are going to have a lot of very vocal, very unhappy people who will have their perception of their world upended and be raising heck about it. I constantly hear that from life long residents in Colo Spgs who were here when it surpassed Pueblo's population figures nearly 40 years ago.

[Count David]

I've been going there a lot over the last few years. I've never lived there, I've never stayed the night there, but I have spent entire days there, and attempt to get to know it better each time I go. I've even been out to Beulah, and have driven over the mountains to Bishop Castle.

So keeping all of that in mind when I form my opinion, I won't say Pueblo's that "bad", but I won't say it's that "good" either.

The good:
-plenty of interesting architecture
-not pretentious/snobby/uppity
-affordability
-not congested/easy to get around

The bad:
-some urban decay
-pretty visible poverty
-setting isn't exactly what's thought of when thinking "Colorado"
-likely has economic/employment problems
-(subjective opinion) I don't find it to be particularly friendly

If you line it up against all of Colorado's other metros roughly its size and larger, it loses in every category aside from affordability. If you like hot summers, it probably wins there too.

Now, I myself will likely never have any desire to live in Pueblo. I personally would much rather live in that other city 45 miles north of there, for just a little more, to get so much more (to be honest, my next move is probably out of CO, when/if there is one ).

I constantly implore people who complain about Denver's COL to give Pueblo a look, especially if they want to stay in CO.

I think the biggest problem facing Pueblo is deciding simply what it wants to be to people. Does it want to be a place that feels like its best days are behind it, or does it want to be a place that attracts growth, and if so, what is it going to offer to attract it? It has tons of potential, but feels very much stuck in the mud overall; kind of a hybrid of a struggling CA Central Valley city and a Midwest city that seems to have lost its industry (maybe Merced, CA/Evansville IN?).