08-25-2011, 12:05 PM
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From the 2 lists it appears there are at least 70 tea houses operating in the state. Don't know what their total revenue is (from tea, retail sales, special events, etc.) or their operating margin. I doubt there would be 70+ if they were all treading water or losing money. I assume some share are successful, at least in their eyes.
It appears they operate 20-60 hours per week with some reductions in off-season in more rural places. It appears they typically have 5-20 tables. If you operated 40 hours per week on average with 10 available tables and had an average of 5 in use and got an average of $30 per table hour in total sales (1 party, typically of 2-4 people ordering tea and usually food too and leaving a tip and some share of them making a retail purchase or two) you are at $300,000 total revenue.
Increase the tables, degree of usage, hours or average bill from all sources (retail sales- directly tea related or not- might be a pretty large component of the business) and the total revenue could go up. If average table usage is too high due to seasonality or limited peak hours of strong patronage or average bill assumptions are too high, adjust downward.
Increase the operating margin and the personal income goes up. Not sure if it is 10% or higher; given that it is an upscale boutique business with apparent need for a higher margin, it might be higher. If a person was serious about entering the business, they could probably get a better sense of the typical numbers involved thru inquiries within the industry.
I'd think a tea house business would need 9-12 months of good business and could get that in good locations. Do tea house patrons make the effort in winter? Townies vs visitors? I don't know but folks in the business do.
Special events could be another significant revenue stream in some places & plans. Real estate appreciation would be another thing that some operator / building owners would hope for and new entrepreneurs might eventually get to later in their career once their establish the business under a lease.
A tea house in a small town sounds like a very challenging proposition, more challenging than in bigger cities. I noted from the start that lists of towns without tea houses include places that likely wouldn't be viable at this time. Still about 20% of the places on the lists are in very small towns. They tend to have less tables, less hours and more off-season. It would probably be better as a second income in a household instead of the primary or only one.
I wouldn't recommend such a venture in a place with much under 10,000 population nearby unless the tourist market was sufficient to compensate and I'd lean toward a somewhat bigger place. Still it is worth noting the original poster asked about towns and not about the tea business. Tried to offer suggestions on both to see what kind of dialog the poster wanted. No follow-up public responses or further questions from the OP so far, but all the responses in the thread are there and can be read and used by the OP to whatever extent they wish or perhaps others to some degree in thinking about small town businesses.
I am fine with posts that include points about facing facts and tough times in general and the rural west in particular but there can be a balance. I think folks also deserve some attempts at help and some open-mindedness about the possibility that maybe they can make their plans work for them. In a small western town or elsewhere.
Last edited by NW Crow; 08-25-2011 at 12:49 PM ..
08-25-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
NW Crow
I doubt there would be 70+ if they were all treading water or losing money. I assume some share are successful, at least in their eyes.
That may be an over-optimistic assumption. Rural Colorado is rife with people who try to "buy themselves a job" by starting some nature of small business. A relative few are successful. Most only manage to buy themselves a damned expensive and very time-demanding hobby. They last a few years, until either their money, fortitude, or patience is gone, then they move on. A "greater fool" is often waiting in the wings to take their place, and the cycle starts again. I've seen this firsthand for decades, including having spent a stint on the Board of Directors on a business incubator. The failure rate of small businesses in rural Colorado has been astronomically high over the past 30 years or so--that in one of the most prosperous periods in rural Colorado's history. That has all changed now--the business environment in most of rural Colorado is now returning to the far more rigorous and difficult environment that it endured for nearly three-quarters of a century after the Silver Panic of 1893. Even well-established and well-capitalized businesses are now having trouble in many parts of rural Colorado--there is no doubt that we are now entering a period of severe contraction and consolidation.
08-25-2011, 03:20 PM
Location: Mesa
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Thanks, everyone!
I should have put this in my original post, but I am NOT here to discuss my tea house. I have been planning this for 4 years and think I'm aware of the HUGE risk I'm taking, so trying to dissuade me from a path I've already put so much time and effort into is totally pointless... I'm not trying to be harsh but I am not looking to be discouraged about the rates of small business failure etc.
What I'm looking for are some towns to use as a jumping-off point so when we visit Colorado in the next few months we're prepared with a list of possibilities.
I also should have added that we aren't planning on randomly showing up and opening our doors, we have over a year planned for finding the perfect location, so we'll be visiting several states and many towns before even narrowing the list down to 2-3 places to do intense, tedious research before we move.
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions, and also thanks for the advice, I genuinely appreciate it. We've both grown up in small businesses (my fiance's parents own a health food store, a holistic rehab center and used to own a restaurant and my parents own a store, my brothers each own their own business, landscaping and consulting firm, respectively) and I have a degree in small business management, as well as countless hours spent studying tea houses specifically. I'm not trying to "toot my own horn" I just want to stress how much experience I have in this field so I don't get any more questions about it.
Thanks again, I'll be looking into the towns that you've suggested!
08-25-2011, 03:48 PM
Location: Mesa
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Oh, and...
Sorry it took me so long to respond, I just figured out how to view comments, I'm not too great with the internet.
We've got to agree with one of the posters here, the town should be closer to 10,000 unless it has good tourist action.
As to the type of shop we're looking to open, it is not exactly like a coffee shop OR a Victorian Tea Room, more like the traditional-style Indian/Middle Eastern tea houses with some retail and natural services (ie energy healing, herbal services and yoga classes) plus workshops, special events and live music/belly dancing.
As far as the towns everyone suggested go, I'll be listing them all out and researching them individually.
Oh, and Jazzlover, we are not looking to "get rich quick" or jump into anything. We love the open spaces and mountains in Colorado, but we'd be spending virtually every minute working, so we're not moving there for mountain biking or horseback riding. We believe that Colorado is one of a few places that has a special energy, an aura if you will that draws us to it, but we'll mostly be enjoying it out the window of our tea house. And this is why we're choosing a town right for the business, possibly you're right and Colorado won't be the state we end up choosing, but I assure you we're going to find out how viable it is before we commit to anything.
08-25-2011, 06:47 PM
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Glad to hear that you have the right education, lots of opportunities to gain business insight & perspective and have done extensive research on your target project. Hard to know sometimes from a short post so some people (including me) may guess a bit about what to assume and what to say.
I went back and noticed that the Durango tea operation is quite limited in time.
Glenwood Springs would probably be a very good business location... if you could find an affordable business property and perhaps lived further to the west. Rifle might be another name for the long list of candidate towns. Could possibly start in Rifle and then maybe move to Glenwood Springs later. Just some thoughts, FWIW.
Best wishes with the rest of the planning and then the doing and living.
Last edited by NW Crow; 08-25-2011 at 07:12 PM ..
08-25-2011, 08:01 PM
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
andromeda_k
Sorry it took me so long to respond, I just figured out how to view comments, I'm not too great with the internet.
We've got to agree with one of the posters here, the town should be closer to 10,000 unless it has good tourist action.
As to the type of shop we're looking to open, it is not exactly like a coffee shop OR a Victorian Tea Room, more like the traditional-style Indian/Middle Eastern tea houses with some retail and natural services (ie energy healing, herbal services and yoga classes) plus workshops, special events and live music/belly dancing.
That is a whole different monster... maybe even a tougher sell in this economy - especially in rural Colorado. At least with Victorian tea rooms, you have a very widespread, traveling market (seniors/boomers).
Indian/Middle Eastern/new age concept might only be able to thrive in very specific (wealthy) pockets of Colorado such as Boulder or Aspen but I suspect that those markets are already tapped to the max with such services. Others on this forum could advise better than I could on that. Plus they would not be at all affordable in terms of rent.
There are some smaller, relatively more affordable towns known for new age stuff (such as Manitou Springs, see here:
Manitou Springs, Colorado - travel fun, lodging, and attractions at the foot of Pikes Peak - Near Colorado Springs or, Crestone see here:
Crestone Colorado )
I don't mean to step on your caterpillar, but I think the concept you are pursuing seems riskier than a Victorian tea room (which is what I originally understood your post to be about). It just seems a little late in the game to be opening up a place like that in Colorado. There have been people doing the new age business thing here since the 1960's. So the market is pretty saturated. Not to mention the currently dismal state of the economy.
08-25-2011, 10:42 PM
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
NW Crow
I went back and noticed that the Durango tea operation is quite limited in time.
What do you mean by that?
08-26-2011, 10:57 AM
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One of the guides says of the Durango tea operation (inside another business): "Tea served 3 to 5pm daily." The possibility of private tea parties outside that timeframe is mentioned, but only 2 hours per day is "quite limited in time" ... for regular "operation" or service.
Last edited by NW Crow; 08-26-2011 at 11:15 AM ..
08-26-2011, 12:57 PM
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Well, I was following the victorian tea house lead when I recommended Leadville.
So now that we know more about your type of teahouse, I too would say Boulder or Manitou Springs. However, I must ask, what does "affordable" in your original post mean to you!!?
Last edited by bongo; 08-26-2011 at 01:16 PM ..
08-26-2011, 01:56 PM
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Oh, I see Boulder already has a pretty fancy tea house:
Order and enjoy unique Yixing teapots and Green, Oolong, and Herbal tea at the Boulder Dushanbe TeaHouse
They just had a big Rocky Mt Tea Festival. That might be fun for you to go to next summer if they have it again.
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Most Common Occupations - Healthcare support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Protective service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)