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We all know America is made up of a country of immigrants. What if the student's parents don't speak english? I find that a lot of kids who have these large loan debts are usually kids who are some of the first in their families to attend college or first generation americans.
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Originally Posted by toobusytoday
Business (finance, accounting, etc.) has been the top major at many colleges for a long time, as far as I know. At least that's been the case at most State Universities.
And Julian, I would caution against blanket statements about guidance counselors unless you have something to back that up. My kids High School had assessment tests that helped the kids realize their strengths, two career development sections in different grades where kids had to research career paths, salary, job requirements etc. Now they also have to shadow someone for so many hours in a career they are interested in. The Guidance counselors job was more to help the kids find a college or a career path that came out of the kids own research.
I'll say it again, if a student is taking out huge student loans, it's their parents who are mostly to blame. It's pretty darn near impossible for a student to fill out the FAFSA paperwork or to sign for loans by themselves. I also know that every year when we get the financial aid package for our current college student, the upcoming loans are spelled out very clearly.
I hear you, but there is a philosophical issue here. There is a system in place that is creating enormous debt for the young people with college aspirations who will find no jobs once they graduate. Something will have to give sooner or later.
Many folks blame the victim instead of looking at the greater issue. And I agree with you! The thing to do is not to attend this money making institutions. It is a business with crony capitalism!
The system is a problem in that it is not intended to produce quality college graduates. However, these victims are only the victims of failing parents.
i agree with this thread, however folks who say "grades l-12 is fee! europe has free/inexpensive college education!" is missing the point. someone IS paying for that and who is that? the tax payer. why do you think a bunch of folks get their degrees for cheap/free then come here? so they DON'T have to pay 40-60% in of their salary in taxes. nothing in life is free.
One need only google 'bad dentistry' and there are threads of forums, articles, and reports about unethical practices of a lot of dentists. In my own area I go through dentists like tissues because I cannot find a decent ethical dentists whose not only out for the dollar and actually cares about his patients health. Dentistry is just as important as being a physician because an infection may kill a person. The problem with dentistry is that too many become greedy, negligent, and care more about paying off debts and becoming rich when they should have gotten into their field to help and care for people's dental health without greed.
I hear what you are saying. The dentist I went to for 25 pushed x-rays. I pushed back and got x-rays every three years. Why? I have hard teeth / and or good habits. The X-Ray didn't add any value because the x-ray never found a cavity my entire life. So why do an annual x-ray? The hygienist (who was always different) said "why not; it's covered by your insurance." No, I pay the bill. In comes the dentist thinking I am cheap and touting the need to do them every-so-often for liability reasons. Hint: there is no money in cleaning teeth. Every dentist office wants you back in 6 months. They have you fill out a mailer and their staff does a follow-up calls. They are doing it for business reasons 1st and the health of your teeth 2nd.
That said, medicine in general can be a situation where procedures are selected to maximize their revenue. The reason why some doctor disciplines make 3X-6X more than others are because the insurance companies and medicare cannot get their hands wrapped around the evolving procedural changes. So an OBGYN might make $200K working their butt off but their income is "capped" because the procedures are generally not new (for instance nothing has changed much in delivering babies) so the billing for the procedures is mature and is under control. But a cardiologist, dermatologist, anesthesiologists all can recommend the brand new "better" procedure and bill out a lot more for those procedures. It's a game. Radiologists in a private practice know that game too. It's call throughput. Look at the parking lot of the exotic cars. Many people enter the healthcare field for the money.
My broader point is never ever forget healthcare is a business. Some Doc's do it for the right reasons but I never ever forget it is a business. My $4800 deductible helps me find the frauds and there are a lot of them when you study the bills and their recommendations. Any doctor knows what I am talking about.
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Originally Posted by cra2ybeautiful
Maybe that lady making 80k in west virginia is actually one of those few good dentists whose not just trying to make a buck but is a decent and ethical dentist who truly cares about her patients health.
Re: Mrs. $80K the dentist. I don't know her but she quickly defaulted on her loans. That doesn't sound too ethical to me. She tried but then she could not practice on any government paid procedure. It might be a stereotype situation that people from West Virginia don't have the $$'s to do the expensive (and needed) procedures. That is why she should have relocated for her own sake.
I don't disagree with that. On one is forced to take the bait, but many do. It is a numbers game, many don't fall and others do. And the parents must provide the guidance.
However, my beef is with the system in place. You people simply live with the system and try to survive the system. You provide ways to avoid the traps. OK, I get that!
But, I go farther----------the system is WRONG! The price of a college education is beyond the reach of many because the colleges raise tuition with the subsidy of student loans. So many students have no choice but to take loans which in turn perpetuate the constant increments in tuition. It is a great setup for the school and a losing proposition for the students.
We have public schools from 1 to grade 12. We also have private schools from 1-12 and these do not get government money to pay tuition.
I think we should have a truly public university system and private universities with no loans for students. Only the students that can afford the tuition without a loan should attend these private colleges. That is the way in works in High School and there is no problem.
I can agree with this. The system in place for colleges is designed to get you to take out a loan. FAFSA only allows so much and that also depends on how much your parents/guardians make, how much you make, and whether your independent or dependent. Its not just a coincidence that college tuition continues to raise its prices, more loans get taken out, then once they graduate they have all this debt and still no job....plus the fact that they can't refinance it, consolidating it can be a challenge, and you sure as hell can't discharge it.
No one is forced to go to college and no one is forced to take student loans, I don't feel sorry for these folks. I didn't have the option to attend college until I was in my mid twenties and even then I had to work during the day and attend at night/online so I could support my family.
No one is forced to go to college and no one is forced to take student loans, I don't feel sorry for these folks. I didn't have the option to attend college until I was in my mid twenties and even then I had to work during the day and attend at night/online so I could support my family.
Part of the problem lies with the universities. Many undergraduate and graduate programs are still structured to where one is forced to attend during the day and this usually prohibits people from working a standard schedule. "Dropping out of life" to attend college, especially in these straightened times, is immensely outdated and impractical.
Part of the problem lies with the universities. Many undergraduate and graduate programs are still structured to where one is forced to attend during the day and this usually prohibits people from working a standard schedule. "Dropping out of life" to attend college, especially in these straightened times, is immensely outdated and impractical.
Whats more impractical is that people are going in debt for amounts they can never pay back. I think its funny we calculate house and vehicle payments before we purchase them to make sure we can afford the payments however students or parents never think twice about borrowing money for college .
I'm glad there is no bailout for student loans, knowledge can't be taken away and people should think hard before taking thousands in loans for college. Students should also think hard on picking less expensive colleges and living at home while attending. No one is forced to borrow the money and when a person does they are agreeing to pay it back, period.
Whats more impractical is that people are going in debt for amounts they can never pay back. I think its funny we calculate house and vehicle payments before we purchase them to make sure we can afford the payments however students or parents never think twice about borrowing money for college .
I'm glad there is no bailout for student loans, knowledge can't be taken away and people should think hard before taking thousands in loans for college. Students should also think hard on picking less expensive colleges and living at home while attending. No one is forced to borrow the money and when a person does they are agreeing to pay it back, period.
Credit worthiness is not usually considered as these loans usually cannot be discharged and there is no collateral, so why should the lender even consider credit worthiness? If a parent cosigns, the lender will always have someone to go after. A house or a car can be repossessed or foreclosed upon (even though the debtor may have negative equity, they can often just bankrupt out a deficiency judgment), but an education is just not the same thing.
The amount one can borrow should be tied to the expected ROI on the degree. For example, an engineer or a nurse should be eligible for more loans than a women's studies major, as the nurse and engineer are more likely to both find in-field employment as well as earn a higher income. If a school charges $10k per year, and someone needs to finance $40k for an engineering degree, that should be far more palatable than financing $100k for a theater degree from an Ivy.
If someone takes out $50k to get a women's studies degree, that was a foolish decision, but it shouldn't be a "financial cross" one has to bear indefinitely. With most other debt, people who make stupid decisions have a way to start over, and that's through bankruptcy. There are severe penalities with bankruptcy, as well as there should be for getting overextended from student loans, but the difference is overextension in student loans has almost no reprieve.
Ultimately, if tuition keeps increasing while salaries and the number of jobs available for graduates decline, the pendulum will swing in favor of not going to college. I think we are already at the point where lifetime ROI for most degrees for most graduates is going to be negative. I know people who have huge student loan balances they will never be able to repay, and while they were stupid to take out such colossal loans, it's even more idiotic to allow this debt to impede economic progress going forward.
No one is forced to go to college and no one is forced to take student loans, I don't feel sorry for these folks. I didn't have the option to attend college until I was in my mid twenties and even then I had to work during the day and attend at night/online so I could support my family.
That's not entirely true, loans are "forced" with a lot of students. Especially at 18-19 when they live with their parents and the federal gov't decides their parents make too much, there goes the pell and map grants...possible scholarships too. Whats left....loans.
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No, I pay the bill. In comes the dentist thinking I am cheap and touting the need to do them every-so-often for liability reasons. 
Hint: there is no money in cleaning teeth. Every dentist office wants you back in 6 months. They have you fill out a mailer and their staff does a follow-up calls. They are doing it for business reasons 1st and the health of your teeth 2nd.
