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Old 07-10-2013, 10:43 AM
 
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Also, please realize, orientation has nothing to do with the reality of the school. Its just some BS pulled together by some flakes in administration, all PR. Trust me, you won't encounter any of those people or their attitudes again during your educational experience there.

BTW, I went to Michigan State Univ, one of the largest universities in the nation. I spent my orientation just figuring out the bus system, the cafeteria system, etc. Oh, yes, I did graduate!

 
Old 07-10-2013, 10:48 AM
 
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I have to agree with most posters here. You picked this college. If you didn't want a warm, fuzzy LAC, perhaps you should have chosen a college that was a bit more business minded.

You said,
Quote:
Lastly, being so sentimental about the liberal arts education/spirituality and community/getting involved/etc, is not necessary and should mostly be negated. I'm personally very efficiency minded and if some of this non essential dialect was taken out my seminar could have been reduced to an afternoon rather than two days.
You should probably be aware that they were not tailoring the orientation to you and if no one else was making objections to it or participating, then the majority were probably okay with it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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Yep. There are many schools that do not offer much by way of a personal touch...perhaps one of those would have been a better fit?
 
Old 07-10-2013, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,732,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
Also, please realize, orientation has nothing to do with the reality of the school. Its just some BS pulled together by some flakes in administration, all PR. Trust me, you won't encounter any of those people or their attitudes again during your educational experience there.

BTW, I went to Michigan State Univ, one of the largest universities in the nation. I spent my orientation just figuring out the bus system, the cafeteria system, etc. Oh, yes, I did graduate!
Or, alternately, it may be VERY indicative of the general atmosphere of the school. Not every school is a large state university in an urban area, and many have divergent educational philosophies. There was no bus system to figure out at my very small, private liberal arts college in a small community, and there was no cafeteria system to learn, other than, "Here's the (one) cafeteria. Here are the hours of each meal." The campus was small, you could walk from one end to the other in maybe ten minutes, it wasn't difficult at all to find your way around. Orientation was very geared toward on-campus life, and what services and resources were offered, how to avail yourself of them, etc.

Different schools do things different ways. Had I gone to the flagship state university in my home state, my experience would have been completely different. Ultimately, it's about fit. Don't like the atmosphere at a school? The options before you are to figure out if you can deal with an atmosphere that's not your cup of tea, if for whatever reason you do want to stay, or to transfer somewhere that suits your preferences better. Many people do just that.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Usa
1,961 posts, read 4,394,223 times
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To the OP:
1) When you visited this school, what about it appealed to you? Was it the educational philosophy of the school? Strength of specific programs? Did you meet with faculty that worked in a research field of interest to you?
2) What specifically about the social interaction games was a problem? I am sort of curious what exactly was organized for students? In general, social "games" can be a good way to help people break the ice and get to know others.

As for study skills, while you may not need any instruction on this. The transition from high school to college can be really challenging. There is a lot more independence in scheduling your time, with students being away from home and a bit more of a rigid structure. Grading is different, and expectations are different. The college ultimately wants students to succeed and earn a degree. Letting students know and provide resources to help develop good study habits is not a big deal.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 01:05 PM
 
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Lack of study skills has nothing to do with the quality of students. Many kids make it through high school with great GPAs and solid SATs but have never actually been greatly intellectually challenged, since most American high schools don't push students to anything close to their limits. An astounding number of freshmen hit the wall every year, even at "elite" schools, because they are not prepared for the volume and difficulty of the work, and/or they have no idea how to manage their time all on their own without a parent enforcing curfews and such. That's why freshmen orientations tend to talk about study habits ad time management over and over and over again.

Also, one of the biggest factors in college student retention is "a sense of community". Research is very clear that freshmen who do not find a circle of supportive friends are less likely to return the following year regardless of grades. Because of that, a ridiculous amount of effort goes towards making sure new students meet and mingle. Again some people are outgoing and don't need the help, but others are quieter or shy and wouldn't talk to people other than their roommate unless they were forced to. Wait until you get in the dorms and the RAs are programming all types of socials and workshops constantly. There will also be a push to encourage everyone to join a club or activity of some sort.

All that said, the quality of Freshman orientations vary. You need to take specific concerns to your school's staff.

You also should learn to go with the flow a little. The school is not going to be customized to your personality. Sometimes you will have to sit through things you don't think you like or need, or complete assignments you find distasteful. It won't stop after college. Welcome to the rest of your life, kid.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcsligar View Post
Thanks, and I agree with you on the unfortunate circumstance of many colleges becoming a business. The school I am going to has a 75% acceptance rate, which certainly illustrates this dynamic. I think the degree of monotony at these seminars has a direct relationship with admission standards.
Very informative post.
I doubt that you chose a school that accepts 75% of all applicants, unless you were a poor student in highschool. I'm sure you took care to select a good school. Why would you have chosen an "easy" school? If I were you, I'd be spending my first days and weeks at college looking forward to all the new experiences and to course registration, instead of focussing on the negative.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 01:44 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,300 posts, read 108,407,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easternerDC View Post
2) What specifically about the social interaction games was a problem? I am sort of curious what exactly was organized for students? In general, social "games" can be a good way to help people break the ice and get to know others.
Some of the games are too physically intimate. When I managed an academic dept. and a small dorm, some of the women students complained that the dorm system required them to play a game of "passing the orange", meaning holding an orange under your chin, then someone would come and try to take it away without using their hands, just trying to grip it with their chin. This gets way too close for comfort to women's chests and personal space in general. The purpose of the exercise seems to be to deliberately break down a sense of personal space. This didn't go over well with the women.

RE: supporting college retention rates by building a sense of community: this is a very valid point. The college experience can be remarkably impersonal and isolating. Students are not friendly in class or after class, contrary to stereotypes of socializing happening between classmates, the personalities in any campus clubs may not "click", especially in small schools, and loneliness is common. Imposing a sense of community on the dorm floor may feel artificial and forced for some, but it can make a positive difference for some students. At least a few casual friendships tend to develop from that.

I wonder if European universities encounter these problems. They tend to leave students to their own devices, both in the dorms and academically. There's no system of academic advisers, for example, as students are expected to be able to read the course catalogue and figure out the requirements for their program from that. I wonder what the retention rates and mental illness rates are in European universities, and if the administrations concern themselves with these issues.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Usa
1,961 posts, read 4,394,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Some of the games are too physically intimate. When I managed an academic dept. and a small dorm, some of the women students complained that the dorm system required them to play a game of "passing the orange", meaning holding an orange under your chin, then someone would come and try to take it away without using their hands, just trying to grip it with their chin. This gets way too close for comfort to women's chests and personal space in general. The purpose of the exercise seems to be to deliberately break down a sense of personal space. This didn't go over well with the women.
...........................

I wonder if European universities encounter these problems. They tend to leave students to their own devices, both in the dorms and academically. There's no system of academic advisers, for example, as students are expected to be able to read the course catalogue and figure out the requirements for their program from that. I wonder what the retention rates and mental illness rates are in European universities, and if the administrations concern themselves with these issues.
Re: games, hmmm, something like that would have made me really uncomfortable.

As for retention in Europe, I found this. Its long, but it is interesting.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: SW FL
895 posts, read 1,707,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Part of the problem is that many freshmen ARE extremely incompetent, which speaks to lax admissions standards, but as others have pointed out, when running a school as a business becomes top priority, the practice of collecting as many tuition-payers as possible, regardless of demonstrated ability level, changes the landscape quite a bit. In order to try to offset the fact that they've admitted many, many students who are not what would have been traditionally considered "college material" decades ago, schools feel they need to do this damage control. Instead of only admitting students who come already prepared to be independent students, colleges increasingly admit people who have not proven that they can do this, and come from backgrounds of copious handholding. It used to be that the handful of people who made it to college who were not ready for college got weeded out...now, schools do everything within their power to prevent those students from being weeded out.

I went to college ready for it. If there were "how to study" orientation activities, I either didn't attend them, or they didn't make such a negative impression on me that I felt for any reason inadequate. I probably just assumed some people must need that.



I was an R.A., which meant that I coordinated residence hall orientation (and I did freshman dorms, exclusively, which meant that students came early for Freshman Orientation, as well). We didn't do summer camp-style games, but I was responsible for planning optional activities, along with others on my team, that were by my estimation age appropriate and of a reasonable social maturity level. There were definitely mixer activities planned to help people who were looking for social opportunities (cookouts planned by floor, etc.) Attendance wasn't mandatory, but most chose to join in. If you think about it, this is a normal part of community, something social groups, clubs, organizations, and some living situations do all the time. Not everyone finds social plans infantile; many are glad to have them. If people choose not to avail themselves of organized social activities, that's cool, but organizing them and making them available isn't anything crazy or weird or immature, to me. It's not hand-holding to make things welcoming and socially appealing. Considering that feeling unwelcome, lonely, and socially isolated is a leading cause of depression and difficulty adjusting to a move, new living situation, etc., these things do make beginning school and easier transition for many, and that's why they exist. I get that not everyone's social, or wants to take part in organized social activities, but many are, and do, obviously.

Others have mentioned that upper teens and, more often, early twenties are a common time for the onset of mental health issues if a person is going to have them, and it makes sense that these environments would anticipate this reality. It's just an age when the onset of depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues is not uncommon.




I'm not sure what this means. I think part of it lies in choosing the environment that is right for you. Also, probably in not attending a liberal arts school if you aren't in favor of the philosophies behind the liberal arts. I intentionally went to a small parochial school that's philosophies were very rooted in community, social justice, and service...this was important to me, and an academically challenging school that emphasized this in tandem with rich academics and elite research opportunities was a good fit. For somebody who really doesn't care much about these things, a school that does not emphasize that piece of learning would be a better fit. Things that are nonessential to one person may well be essential to another for an optimum learning experience, and so it's best to find an environment that fits your needs and wants best.

I think most of the things you raise issue with could be best avoided by careful attention during the selection process to make sure the culture and atmosphere of the school you will attend is a good fit. If you don't want a warm, fuzzy, Kum-Ba-Yah school, don't go to one...simple enough. There are lots of different schoosl out there with lots of different approaches, characters, and atmospheres.
1. Schools obviously do everything in their power to ensure that students will graduate as a result of achieving a desirable graduation statistic. This obviously entices students and parents alike and increases tuition dollars. Part of the motives might be genuine, but like you said, some students just aren't college material.

2. Making these social integration games optional and tailored to the appropriate maturity level is the key here. The trite games I unfortunately was forced to endure were neither of these things.

3. I choose my career (journalism) as an effort to be philanthropic and overall serve the good of the people. However, this doesn't mean that I am so dramatic about my goals and so mushy gushy about "making a change," "leaving my footprint," etc. Once again, I think this is a bit of a marketing tactic because parents love to hear how altruistic their college is and fancy their child as the next Bill Gates/Ghandi/John Lennon/etc. As far as community mindedness goes, I am not the most social person but I do value close friendships. That doesn't mean that I need to be part of every club/campus event/etc to fulfill this aspect of life. I prefer to not be so sentimental about the process and if I happen to meet some good friends, great, but ultimately I am attending college to challenge myself intellectually and get my career rolling. You might say that I underestimated the gushy meat that was so apparent during the orientation.
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