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Maybe where you live but here, CC are NOT the same classes. They are not even taught by full professors. Sorry, they are not even close to the same.
Here classes don't automatically transfer and none of the private schools here accept CC credits....those 2 years at a CC would be a waste of money.
Can you hop over to the MN board and post this on the "Carleton Students" thread If you add in room and board for a CC student, even living at home they cost money, your costs are probably close to the same.
Actually, here you're more likely to get a teacher who teaches at a community college. Often the profs at universities are researchers who have to teach or just supervise TA's who do the teaching.
I took my first two years at a CC and I was head and shoulders above my classmates in math when I transferred. My calculus classes were 5 credits (met 5 days a week) and taught by an adjunct math professor. Their's were 3 credits and taught by an graduate TA who probably didn't major in math or speak english well.
One of the things I love about CC is they are not trying to weed out their students. Instead of using courses like calculus as weeding courses (taught in a sink or swim style), they actually taught me calculus. That advantage has never left. I'm still head and shoulders above my classmates because I went to a CC first.
Many CC classes transfer here. The lower level ones don't but it's easy enough to make sure you only take classes that transfer.
As to cost, I can expect to pay over $25K/year for my kids to go to a 4 year university. It will cost me $5K/year (all inclusive) to send them to the local CC. I save more than enough to pay for each of their weddings by having them go to a CC first.
Actually, here you're more likely to get a teacher who teaches at a community college. Often the profs at universities are researchers who have to teach or just supervise TA's who do the teaching.
I took my first two years at a CC and I was head and shoulders above my classmates in math when I transferred. My calculus classes were 5 credits (met 5 days a week) and taught by an adjunct math professor. Their's were 3 credits and taught by an graduate TA who probably didn't major in math or speak english well.
One of the things I love about CC is they are not trying to weed out their students. Instead of using courses like calculus as weeding courses (taught in a sink or swim style), they actually taught me calculus. That advantage has never left. I'm still head and shoulders above my classmates because I went to a CC first.
Many CC classes transfer here. The lower level ones don't but it's easy enough to make sure you only take classes that transfer.
As to cost, I can expect to pay over $25K/year for my kids to go to a 4 year university. It will cost me $5K/year (all inclusive) to send them to the local CC. I save more than enough to pay for each of their weddings by having them go to a CC first.
Sure, at the large flagship universities but not the smaller schools and NOT at private schools....none of the schools we have looked at for our 3 have ANY TA's teaching classes.
If you are the leader with influence and power shouldn't you demonstrate ethical and intellectual leadership skills and aptitudes?
Students are not in the position of power. You are. Do something other than complain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic?
I teach Management classes in the Business Program at a large Community College as an Adjunct Professor as a second job in the evening. I have also taught full time students in the day time too.
Sometimes when I can't sleep I get philosophical about the thousands of students who have come through my classes in the last 15 years. Many are nice enough and many put in some effort but in general America is in serious trouble if these people are going to someday work in responsible positions in corporate America.
What hits me is how many of the Community College students just don't care, are lazy and not so bright. Many even in their 20s and 30s are incredibly naive about academics, organization and education. They also seem incredibly naive about what awaits them in the real world if they graduate.
Most of the students who come through my Management 101 class will take a handful of classes at the Community College and then drop out and then go into a number of dead end jobs for the rest of their life.
My situation is not unique. My fellow Professors report the quality of students are at an all time low and each year the group gets worse and worse. All in an era when we are facing incredible competition from Asia.
Tell me the students are better in a four year college!
Sure, at the large flagship universities but not the smaller schools and NOT at private schools....none of the schools we have looked at for our 3 have ANY TA's teaching classes.
I agree. My small private school had the professors teach. They also had the students engaged in research activities starting from the first semester.
We did have TAs grading for some of the classes, however... but they basically followed the rubric provided by the professor.
I teach Management classes in the Business Program at a large Community College as an Adjunct Professor as a second job in the evening. I have also taught full time students in the day time too.
Sometimes when I can't sleep I get philosophical about the thousands of students who have come through my classes in the last 15 years. Many are nice enough and many put in some effort but in general America is in serious trouble if these people are going to someday work in responsible positions in corporate America.
What hits me is how many of the Community College students just don't care, are lazy and not so bright. Many even in their 20s and 30s are incredibly naive about academics, organization and education. They also seem incredibly naive about what awaits them in the real world if they graduate.
Most of the students who come through my Management 101 class will take a handful of classes at the Community College and then drop out and then go into a number of dead end jobs for the rest of their life.
My situation is not unique. My fellow Professors report the quality of students are at an all time low and each year the group gets worse and worse. All in an era when we are facing incredible competition from Asia.
Tell me the students are better in a four year college!
I hate to tell you so, but for the most part, I highly doubt it. I understand what you're saying about community college students since I am attending one as an older student and see the irresponsibility all around me.
However you have to remember some things about college students. Some of them were raised not knowing how to do a gosh-darn thing themselves since their parents were always there to do it, and therefore they certainly didn't learn on their own to be that way (unless their parents taught them nothing, which is a different issue altogether). Also, who college kids are today is not who they will be tomorrow. Heck one of my closest friends was irresponsible as heck when we were in our teenaged years. Now she's married, has a kid and is a teacher. So don't automatically think that all kids who are irresponsible and skip class today are going to be that way when they get into the working world.
P.S. Kids aren't born knowing what to expect in the adult world. Maybe if their professors steered them away from the sunny ideas their parents, counselors and others foist on them about what they'll find in the real world, they'd be much better off and their crash into adulthood wouldn't hit so hard.
I agree. My small private school had the professors teach. They also had the students engaged in research activities starting from the first semester.
We did have TAs grading for some of the classes, however... but they basically followed the rubric provided by the professor.
I attended a small private university (on a full scholarship). Tuition, alone, was $12K/year back in the 1980's and you had TA's for the first two years. Same at the state schools, only the tuition was less. It's pretty standard, here, to have TA's for the first two years. You don't see full professors until you're in upper division classes.
CC's are a bargain. They do not use the first two years as weeding classes. They actually try to teach.
I hate to tell you so, but for the most part, I highly doubt it. I understand what you're saying about community college students since I am attending one as an older student and see the irresponsibility all around me.
However you have to remember some things about college students. Some of them were raised not knowing how to do a gosh-darn thing themselves since their parents were always there to do it, and therefore they certainly didn't learn on their own to be that way (unless their parents taught them nothing, which is a different issue altogether). Also, who college kids are today is not who they will be tomorrow. Heck one of my closest friends was irresponsible as heck when we were in our teenaged years. Now she's married, has a kid and is a teacher. So don't automatically think that all kids who are irresponsible and skip class today are going to be that way when they get into the working world.
P.S. Kids aren't born knowing what to expect in the adult world. Maybe if their professors steered them away from the sunny ideas their parents, counselors and others foist on them about what they'll find in the real world, they'd be much better off and their crash into adulthood wouldn't hit so hard.
I think you're right. While I do see irresponsibility in today's youth, it's do or die once they graduate. They'll either figure it out or sink. I think many will figure it out. They just don't need to yet so they don't.
I work at a public state university. I'm not a professor (but a secretary) and I deal with a LOT of hand-holding at work! In fact, just today, I had a young sophomore practically crying at my desk because she wanted a work-study position in the Spring; even though she declined the financial aid award at the beginning of the Fall semester (and now, the monies aren't there...but I told her to go complain to financial aid). What I see is tons and tons of kids who have a huge sense of entitlement...and nothing is their fault.
I attended a small private university (on a full scholarship). Tuition, alone, was $12K/year back in the 1980's and you had TA's for the first two years. Same at the state schools, only the tuition was less. It's pretty standard, here, to have TA's for the first two years. You don't see full professors until you're in upper division classes.
CC's are a bargain. They do not use the first two years as weeding classes. They actually try to teach.
I suppose we had different experiences. I did not experience the weeding out. Our professors were very interested in teaching us and for us to be successful.
Like I did mention before, anyone who was interested in going to my school (as I was) had no option other than to go there for the entire 4 years. They do not accept transfers. Until recently, many of the good schools did not accept transfer students. I know some still do not from 2-year institutions.
Hmm, I wonder about that. You think Chem 101 or Calculus I, II, and III is any easier at CC than it is at $20K/year U?
my brother spent 2 years at the local community college. he said it was ridiculously easy and it was a joke. it was just an extension of high school for the losers who werent going anywhere. they have to make it easier because they are (for the most part) the lowest common denominator (well, i guess they are above the ones that stopped at high school, but not by much).
it worked out good for my brother though. he did well and transferred to a university he wouldnt have been accepted to out of high school. ended up with a regular degree like anyone else and saved my dad some money. so if its really a financial decision and is utilized to get into a good university, it can be used for good.
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If you add in room and board for a CC student, even living at home they cost money, your costs are probably close to the same.
