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Hello all! Really glad to have found these forums-they're a big help when you're looking to relocate. I'm currently in a position where my job is being moved to either Madison, WI or St. Louis, MO. Office considerations aside (my company's HQ is in Madison & the office in STL is smaller, but on the West side of the city), I'm having a horrible time deciding which is better, namely because I know they are totally different in almost every aspect. STL is a major metro city & Madison is a mid size northern Midwest town. I'm wanting opinions, though I know that, yes, ultimately it's my choice to make. A bit about me:
-I'm 28, engaged and childless.
-I currently reside in Des Moines, IA. and, from what I can tell Madison isn't that much different. That being said, while I like Iowa, I DESPISE winter. I can deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life since I've been dealing with it for 8 years now, but still not a fan in anyway. Definitely won't be out skiing or sledding or anything else that involves interaction with the cold.
-I'm originally from Evansville, IN., so in terms of climate and regional culture, I'm familiar with what STL has to offer. Even after all this time in Iowa, I still consider myself a southern Midwest woman and am most familiar with that culture. Plus, I'd be a lot closer in distance to family, which is nice.
-I have 3 dogs, 2 of which are large. While dog parks are great and both cities offer them, I really want a place that provides trails and paths to walk them. Doesn't have to be nature-filled and tree-lined, but walking the parking lots at the local strip mall isn't going to cut it for me.
My concerns about both places:
-STL crime. I handle property claims for the STL region currently, so I'm somewhat familiar with the bad & good areas. And I have common sense-it's not like I'd go jogging alone at 1AM. I know any large city has crime, I just want to know if it's an everyday fact of life or something that can, for the most part, be avoided-without having to move to Troy.
-Medical facilities in STL. In Des Moines, our major hospitals have clinics in various locations around town with labs and different Dr.'s. I've seen a similar set up in Madison, but wasn't sure about STL. If I live in Ballwin and my insurance is affiliated with Barnes-Jewish, do I have to drive into the city to see a Dr or are there clinics around town?
-Traffic & general population congestion in STL. As I said, I live In Des Moines and come from an even smaller town in Indiana. I did live in Phoenix for 2 years...and hated it (except for the weather). Just WAY too many people for my taste. Obviously I would look to live near where I work so the commute wouldn't kill me, but I'm a little concerned about being overwhelmed by the size of STL.
-Housing & living costs in Madison. I'm trying to find an apartment that takes large dogs and won't break my budget and that's a little like trying to find an invisibility cloak. And even when I look at houses, I'm a little surprised at how little you get for your money. My current salary is modest-$50K-just how expensive is it to live in Madison?
-Shopping in Madison. And I don't mean brand names or anything. It seems like, for the most part, people there live in suburbs and commute into the city. While there's a lot in Madison, some of these suburbs I looked at have almost nothing in terms of grocery & general goods stores. Not that a Walmart on every corner is a good thing, but is it easy to get supplies or do you have to make a 30 minute trek to Madison every time you need toilet paper?
I'm pretty flexible in terms of what's important to me. I just want a place that's safe and has some economic security with a decent cost of living. Would love warmer weather, but will deal with it for the sake of a good quality of life. Also, I have visited both places, so I've seen, to an extent, what they have to offer. Now I just want to hear from ppl who actually live in these cities and can give me their perspective. I appreciate and welcome all opinions and advice! Thank you!
If your job and home are in the city or an inner-ring suburb (like Clayton), you may be able to take MetroLink to work.
I'd suggest posting this in the STL and Madison forums. You would get more informed and detailed answers that way.
Some questions:
What kind of job is your fiancee looking for?
Are you looking to buy or rent now? Are you thinking of long-term things like schooling?
Are you going to make $50k/year at either job?
I don't live in St. Louis, but I know there are people on this forum who live in the city and do just fine. Maybe they'll chime in here soon.
Sorry I can't be of more help. Best of luck.
If you do choose St. Louis, maybe try the Tudor apartments http://www.forrent.com/apartment-com...1000053438.php
There's a City Pet Supply in the building, the apartments are listed as "pet friendly".
1 BR $553-$622
2 BR $811
I don't know much about the area, though.
Just a suggestion.
Speaking as someone who also despises winter I would still have to say that Madison is your better bet.
50K would support you in a nice life style here though it might be hard to save much depending on your spending habits.
Finding a place that accepts dogs will be a challenge, however. I would almost recommend buying, but the market here is so crummy that once you buy you're probably stuck here until it turns around and God knows when that will be. The local humane society used to have a page of pet friendly apartments, but when I went to find it today there was only 2 companies listed, both with bad reps in the area. Apparently they are selling space on this page now. Great community service dchs! (read into this heavy sarcasm). Your best bet is to try Craig's list or the local papers and find places that are own managed.
I don't think you should discount the city itself. I think you are wrong in your impression that most people commute in from outlying areas. I actually only know of one person who does and I've lived here for over 20 years.
The good news is we have awesome dog parks, both city and county. There is one by Verona that is just beautiful. It' huge, has both prairie and rocky out cropping. The trails are very well kept up, too.
Madison is also one of the safest cities you could find. Of course it has it's bad areas, but nothing like St.Louis.
For a city it's size there are also a lot of entertainment options ranging from high brow to down home. The music scene is quite diverse. There are many good, locally owned restaurants. There are tons of community festivals, most with free admission. Decent shopping for a city this size, though definitely not Chicago.
If an East coaster (my husband) has been convinced by his wife (me) to move with her to Madison and he had 20 years experience in IT, software development and makes 120k - where, or is there anywhere he can apply and find a secure reasonable job that pays close to that? I read the scary posts about Epic. Is there a normal, adult company where a very experienced hard working but family person can to apply with in Madison and find a job?
If your insurance is affiliated with Barnes-Jewish and you're based out of Ballwin MO, COUNT THAT AS MAJOR BONUS POINTS FOR ST. LOUIS! Actually, no matter where you are in St. Louis, count that as major bonus points. Barnes Jewish is associated with Wash U Medical School--one of the top 10 hospitals in the nation.
And if you don't like winter, yeah St. Louis has one but it's nothing compared to Wisconsin or Iowa. And if you like baseball, St. Louis is great.
I've heard lots of great things about Madison and it's on my list to get there and scope it out soon; apparently though Chicago tends to keep me busy enough.
I currently reside in Des Moines, IA. and, from what I can tell Madison isn't that much different.
You couldn't be further off (congrats on your engagement by the way). Madison is very different than Des Moines as it's also a big college town in addition to being the state capital. Also, Madison is one of the best planned cities in the country--sitting on an isthmus between two lakes. The city has a large network of parks and trails, as well as boat launches and landings on the lakes. Given the prominence of the University, Maidson is extremely cosmopolitan for a metro of its size (500K) as it over-achieves in its cultural amenities--i.e. concerts, shows, museums, performing arts, etc. You will also find people from all over the US--and to a lesser extent, the world--in Madison as well.
The reputation of the city for having an excellent quality of life is well known and documented, as it has won the "Best City" award by Money magazine multiple times. It also boasts a very top notch public school system and a very low crime rate, making it an excellent place to raise a family. The nightlife there is also unbelievable.
I really think that Madison would be a perfect fit for you.
I think that the central part of Madison and the U City/Central West End area are alot alike in terms of what they have to offer (college town atmosphere, coffee houses, night clubs, etc.) and i would guess that rents in these areas are similar. Crime in this part of STL (south of Delmar) is not that bad and not something that a person needs to be paranoid about. Suburban parts of both cities are also very similar, although the suburban region is much larger in STL. Again, I think that rents and housing prices in many suburbs would be similar.
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Great community service dchs! (read into this heavy sarcasm). Your best bet is to try Craig's list or the local papers and find places that are own managed.
Jobs in Madison
