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Oh ok then. The Las Colinas Urban Center around Lake Carolyn isn't built out, but they've built a lot of amenities and apartments in the last 10 years. Still some vacant land left and one of the sites is for Well Fargo's new campus. Believe it or not, this area was planned 50 years ago to rival downtown Dallas. We'll see if that actually comes to fruition with the new developments. Right now, it is office park-y until they build it out.
Yeah, that does look more mixed use but I wouldn't call it an urban center. That streetview (I used 851 Lake Carolyn) has a walk score of 52 and 54 for transit even with the station.
It's far from perfect but I would think that you need at least a 70 score to be a called an urban center. Really for me it would have to be maybe 80 or more.
IMO West Campus in Austin is the most urban district in Texas even including the CBDs. It's the only place in Texas I've seen that has the level of population density and pedestrian foot traffic you find in the urban cities in the northeast. It's almost entirely students, though, so it does drop off when school is out of session in the summer.
IMO West Campus in Austin is the most urban district in Texas even including the CBDs. It's the only place in Texas I've seen that has the level of population density and pedestrian foot traffic you find in the urban cities in the northeast. It's almost entirely students, though, so it does drop off when school is out of session in the summer.
Yeah, that does look more mixed use but I wouldn't call it an urban center. That streetview (I used 851 Lake Carolyn) has a walk score of 52 and 54 for transit even with the station.
It's far from perfect but I would think that you need at least a 70 score to be a called an urban center. Really for me it would have to be maybe 80 or more.
That’s fair. It has had a lot of urban planning mistakes since its inception in the 70s. The people mover and the riverwalk are a few of those things. This is the only real grouping of office/retail/residential in the suburbs with transit.
IMO West Campus in Austin is the most urban district in Texas even including the CBDs. It's the only place in Texas I've seen that has the level of population density and pedestrian foot traffic you find in the urban cities in the northeast. It's almost entirely students, though, so it does drop off when school is out of session in the summer.
As solid as West Campus is, it still has a few small strips and doesn’t have the sidewalk uniformity that the big urban legacy cities have (this is especially seen once you go west of Rio Grande). The sidewalks randomly widen and shrink throughout the neighborhood because a lot of the old buildings in West Campus have narrower 4-6 feet sidewalks. Another issue with West Campus in comparison to legacy cities is that despite all the new development, they still leave those damn utility poles on the sidewalks. This is much more a Texas problem rather than a West Campus or Austin specific problem, as I noticed that being an issue in Houston and Dallas as well. The density of West Campus might be as high as urban neighborhoods in legacy cities but the built form, while solid, still falls short in comparison. Obviously can’t fault Austin for that as it’s a new city and it would be unfair to compare it to legacy big urban cities. West Campus is a nice urban neighborhood for students. It’s very urban for Texas for sure.
As solid as West Campus is, it still has a few small strips and doesn’t have the sidewalk uniformity that the big urban legacy cities have (this is especially seen once you go west of Rio Grande). The sidewalks randomly widen and shrink throughout the neighborhood because a lot of the old buildings in West Campus have narrower 4-6 feet sidewalks. Another issue with West Campus in comparison to legacy cities is that despite all the new development, they still leave those damn utility poles on the sidewalks. This is much more a Texas problem rather than a West Campus or Austin specific problem, as I noticed that being an issue in Houston and Dallas as well. The density of West Campus might be as high as urban neighborhoods in legacy cities but the built form, while solid, still falls short in comparison. Obviously can’t fault Austin for that as it’s a new city and it would be unfair to compare it to legacy big urban cities. West Campus is a nice urban neighborhood for students. It’s very urban for Texas for sure.
Yeah I mean my statement was that it was the most urban in Texas, not that it would stand out in a legacy city. I think it has quite a bit more all-hours pedestrian activity and less car dependency than any of the Texas CBDs (despite the issues it does have).
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19
You are getting ahead of yourself there.
How so? Every time I am over there the streets are absolutely packed with students on foot, scooters, and bikes. The only time I've seen Texas CBDs like this is during events, e.g. SXSW. The pop density is like 3x any other neighborhood in TX.
The pop density is like 3x any other neighborhood in TX.
I give this 3 Pinocchios.
The population density in West Campus Austin and Gulfton Houston are both 15k.
I know you are going to add caveats in your reply, but that quoted statement is false no matter how it is spun. West Campus is like 1.4 times more dense than neighborhoods like Montrose and Midtown Houston. No where close to 3 times.
Further, Gulfton is 30% larger than West Campus and surrounded by areas of similar but lower density. Cut down Gulfton to its inner housing stock and I bet it's much more dense than WC.
Gulfton isn't very walkable right now, but throw in some rail and some store fronts and it will feel more like a walkable neighborhood.
Vickery Meadows in Dallas also has similar density to West Campus.
I give this 3 Pinocchios.
The population density in West Campus Austin and Gulfton Houston are both 15k.
I know you are going to add caveats in your reply, but that quoted statement is false no matter how it is spun. West Campus is like 1.4 times more dense than neighborhoods like Montrose and Midtown Houston. No where close to 3 times.
Further, Gulfton is 30% larger than West Campus and surrounded by areas of similar but lower density. Cut down Gulfton to its inner housing stock and I bet it's much more dense than WC.
Gulfton isn't very walkable right now, but throw in some rail and some store fronts and it will feel more like a walkable neighborhood.
Vickery Meadows in Dallas also has similar density to West Campus.
FWIW: college neighborhoods always have their true density undercounted because many students list their address on the census as where their parents live.
Also, I think this thread is talking about something different from raw population density numbers. The densest census tract in Spokane, WA, and the only one in the city over 10k ppsm, is a neighborhood with a lot of low-rise apartments and trailer parks --- not dissimilar from Vickery Meadows --- but it's hard to argue that that area is urban.
FWIW: college neighborhoods always have their true density undercounted because many students list their address on the census as where their parents live.
Also, I think this thread is talking about something different from raw population density numbers. The densest census tract in Spokane, WA, and the only one in the city over 10k ppsm, is a neighborhood with a lot of low-rise apartments and trailer parks --- not dissimilar from Vickery Meadows --- but it's hard to argue that that area is urban.
I understand all of that, and none of it changes the fact that the statement of West Campus being 3times as dense as the next dense Texas neighborhoods is false. I knew the caveats would come, but facts are facts and WC having 3times the density of the next most dense neighborhood is not a fact. I was responding to a specific statement and I quoted that statement. Don't make it seem like I am responding to the thread as a whole.
Both Gulfton and Vickery Meadow are home to large volumes of new immigrants. Many undocumented. I don't have to tell you that the true number of residents there are vastly underreported too.
But just looking at residential units, Gulfton and Vickery Meadow have similar numbers to West Campus. And that's with west campus lacking parks and other none residential areas. Gulfton and Vickery Meadow imo are more structurally dense in that they have similar units, similar population density and yet still has land left over for parks and other non residential uses.
I give this 3 Pinocchios.
The population density in West Campus Austin and Gulfton Houston are both 15k.
I looked it up earlier today and if I got the area correct West Campus 2020 census tracts add up to 0.9 square miles and almost exactly 25,000 ppsm. I didn't look up Gulfton but I'll see if I can.
Edit: I did a quick check and Gulfston is about 16,000 ppsm.
Last edited by 2Easy; 12-04-2023 at 09:29 PM..
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