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Oh I know, it's certainly many more that would be considered, but I just named a few for each city.
I was just pointing out that what people universally consider the downtown DC CBD is actually multiple neighborhoods. The most unique thing of any city being discussed has to be Golden Triangle in relation to downtown DC. Almost nobody outside of DC realizes it isn’t downtown DC.
Even though there is no difference between both sides of 15th St NW, one side of the street is the Downtown DC CBD and the other side is the Golden Triangle neighborhood which is not part of the Downtown DC CBD. It makes the term “Downtown DC” pretty useless in 2023. It’s better just to call it the urban core at this point.
Updating the list, adding a few more people have suggested (only additions, not swapping anything out)
Also adding San Jose, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Fresno
NYC- Upper East side, South Bronx, Bedford-Stuyvesant, LIC. (Suburbs- Hoboken, JC). Philly- North Philadelphia (Suburbs- Camden, Chester) Boston- Back Bay (Suburbs- Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline) Chicago- River North/Near North Side (Suburbs- Oak Park, Evanston, Cicero) DC- Navy Yard, Columbia Heights, NOMA ( Suburbs- Arlington, Alexandria, Bethesda) Los Angeles- Central LA; Koreatown; Chinatown (Suburbs- Long Beach, Santa Monica) San Francisco- Union Square, Chinatown, Tenderloin, (Suburbs- Oakland, Berkeley, Daly City) Seattle- South Lake Union, Capitol Hill (Suburbs - Bellevue, Everett) Atlanta- Midtown, Buckhead (Suburbs- Decatur) Miami- Little Havana (Miami Beach, Ft. Lauderdale) Denver- Union Station?? Five Points (Suburbs- Littleton, Edgewater) Detroit-Highland Park, (Suburbs Dearborn, Hamtramck, Southfield) Phoenix- Los Olivos (Suburbs- Scottsdale) Minneapolis- Northeast Minneapolis?? (Suburbs- Bloomington?) Baltimore- Fells Point, Little Italy, Charles Village (Suburbs- Towson) St. Louis- Central West Side (Suburbs Clayton, University City, Maplewood) Portland- Northwest District, South Waterfront (Suburbs- Vancouver) Cincinnati- Over the Rhine, Northside (Suburbs- Covington, Newport) Indianapolis- Fountain Square (Suburbs- Anderson) Las Vegas- Arts District, Naked City (Suburbs- Paradise) Orlando - East Colonial area; Suburb: Winter Park Tampa - Water Street / Channelside, Suburb: St. Petersburg (which is really more urban than Tampa) Charlotte - South End San Diego - Hillcrest, Bankers Hill San Jose- Japantown (Suburbs- Palo Alto, Mountain View) Milwaukee- Lower East Side, Marquette (Suburbs- Shorewood) Sacramento- Midtown, Oak Park (Suburbs- Davis) Fresno- Tower District (Suburbs- Clovis)
Updating the list, adding a few more people have suggested (only additions, not swapping anything out)
Also adding San Jose, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Fresno
NYC- Upper East side, South Bronx, Bedford-Stuyvesant, LIC. (Suburbs- Hoboken, JC). Philly- North Philadelphia (Suburbs- Camden, Chester) Boston- Back Bay (Suburbs- Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline) Chicago- River North/Near North Side (Suburbs- Oak Park, Evanston, Cicero) DC- Navy Yard, Columbia Heights, NOMA ( Suburbs- Arlington, Alexandria, Bethesda) Los Angeles- Central LA; Koreatown; Chinatown (Suburbs- Long Beach, Santa Monica) San Francisco- Union Square, Chinatown, Tenderloin, (Suburbs- Oakland, Berkeley, Daly City) Seattle- South Lake Union, Capitol Hill (Suburbs - Bellevue, Everett) Atlanta- Midtown, Buckhead (Suburbs- Decatur) Miami- Little Havana (Miami Beach, Ft. Lauderdale) Denver- Union Station?? Five Points (Suburbs- Littleton, Edgewater) Detroit-Highland Park, (Suburbs Dearborn, Hamtramck, Southfield) Phoenix- Los Olivos (Suburbs- Scottsdale) Minneapolis- Northeast Minneapolis?? (Suburbs- Bloomington?) Baltimore- Fells Point, Little Italy, Charles Village (Suburbs- Towson) St. Louis- Central West Side (Suburbs Clayton, University City, Maplewood) Portland- Northwest District, South Waterfront (Suburbs- Vancouver) Cincinnati- Over the Rhine, Northside (Suburbs- Covington, Newport) Indianapolis- Fountain Square (Suburbs- Anderson) Las Vegas- Arts District, Naked City (Suburbs- Paradise) Orlando - East Colonial area; Suburb: Winter Park Tampa - Water Street / Channelside, Suburb: St. Petersburg (which is really more urban than Tampa) Charlotte - South End San Diego - Hillcrest, Bankers Hill San Jose- Japantown (Suburbs- Palo Alto, Mountain View) Milwaukee- Lower East Side, Marquette (Suburbs- Shorewood) Sacramento- Midtown, Oak Park (Suburbs- Davis) Fresno- Tower District (Suburbs- Clovis)
I'd say Uptown is the most urban neighborhood in Minneapolis
Overall yes, but (for those unfamiliar) North Philadelphia also contains some of the best neighborhoods in the city (outside of Center City). Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Spring Garden, Fairmount etc., are technically North Philadelphia.
If we're looking at the holistic picture, pound for pound, I'd say it's pretty much a wash between North and South Philadelphia in urbanity. Yes, North Philadelphia takes the cake for built form for the reasons aforementioned in this thread: better conglomeration of mid-rise and mixed use buildings, whereas South Philadelphia is dominated by rowhomes.
However, South Philadelphia is more uniformly vibrant, whereas North Philadelphia still has many neighborhood where blocks of bombed out and abandoned buildings are not uncommon. These are some of the most dangerous feeling (and the reality often matches) areas in the city, and therefore most would not be caught dead (no pun intended) there any time of day, no less at night. Most people comfortable in urban environments would feel safe throughout most of South Philadelphia, and this goes to show with South Philly's more uniform bustling street-level activity. IMO, "urbanity" is more than just built form.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars
Updating the list, adding a few more people have suggested (only additions, not swapping anything out)
Also adding San Jose, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Fresno
NYC- Upper East side, South Bronx, Bedford-Stuyvesant, LIC. (Suburbs- Hoboken, JC). Philly- North Philadelphia (Suburbs- Camden, Chester) Boston- Back Bay (Suburbs- Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline) Chicago- River North/Near North Side (Suburbs- Oak Park, Evanston, Cicero) DC- Navy Yard, Columbia Heights, NOMA ( Suburbs- Arlington, Alexandria, Bethesda) Los Angeles- Central LA; Koreatown; Chinatown (Suburbs- Long Beach, Santa Monica) San Francisco- Union Square, Chinatown, Tenderloin, (Suburbs- Oakland, Berkeley, Daly City) Seattle- South Lake Union, Capitol Hill (Suburbs - Bellevue, Everett) Atlanta- Midtown, Buckhead (Suburbs- Decatur) Miami- Little Havana (Miami Beach, Ft. Lauderdale) Denver- Union Station?? Five Points (Suburbs- Littleton, Edgewater) Detroit-Highland Park, (Suburbs Dearborn, Hamtramck, Southfield) Phoenix- Los Olivos (Suburbs- Scottsdale) Minneapolis- Northeast Minneapolis?? (Suburbs- Bloomington?) Baltimore- Fells Point, Little Italy, Charles Village (Suburbs- Towson) St. Louis- Central West Side (Suburbs Clayton, University City, Maplewood) Portland- Northwest District, South Waterfront (Suburbs- Vancouver) Cincinnati- Over the Rhine, Northside (Suburbs- Covington, Newport) Indianapolis- Fountain Square (Suburbs- Anderson) Las Vegas- Arts District, Naked City (Suburbs- Paradise) Orlando - East Colonial area; Suburb: Winter Park Tampa - Water Street / Channelside, Suburb: St. Petersburg (which is really more urban than Tampa) Charlotte - South End San Diego - Hillcrest, Bankers Hill San Jose- Japantown (Suburbs- Palo Alto, Mountain View) Milwaukee- Lower East Side, Marquette (Suburbs- Shorewood) Sacramento- Midtown, Oak Park (Suburbs- Davis) Fresno- Tower District (Suburbs- Clovis)
This is good thanks. Although I thought we were comparing either top 20/25ish cities. I know we're still down the Texas cities. I would probably take a Fresno for example off.
South Philly is less dilapidated for sure, but north Philly is zoned more liberally so you see a lot of mid-rises built throughout its vernacular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir
If we're looking at the holistic picture, pound for pound, I'd say it's pretty much a wash between North and South Philadelphia in urbanity. Yes, North Philadelphia takes the cake for built form for the reasons aforementioned in this thread: better conglomeration of mid-rise and mixed use buildings, whereas South Philadelphia is dominated by rowhomes.
However, South Philadelphia is more uniformly vibrant, whereas North Philadelphia still has many neighborhood where blocks of bombed out and abandoned buildings are not uncommon. These are some of the most dangerous feeling (and the reality often matches) areas in the city, and therefore most would not be caught dead (no pun intended) there any time of day, no less at night. Most people comfortable in urban environments would feel safe throughout most of South Philadelphia, and this goes to show with South Philly's more uniform bustling street-level activity. IMO, "urbanity" is more than just built form.
To partly underscore the points above and to partly cast a vote for North Philadelphia's future:
Before the construction of the two Cira Centre towers near 30th Street Station, the Beury (aka "Boner 4Ever" after the two taggers who left their tags in prominent spots on its north and south facades) Building (1928), where Germantown Avenue crosses Broad Street, was the tallest building in the city outside Center City. Long abandoned, it is being converted to a hotel, most likely one in the Marriott family, by Shift Capital and the Wankawala Organization, the latter of which turned a flophouse hotel in Washington Square West into the coolest Fairfield by Marriott hotel you've ever seen.
Those of you who saw "Creed," the reboot of the "Rocky" franchise, saw Max's Steaks at Germantown and Erie avenues, just down the block, get a cameo in it. It gets real busy on weekend nights in the summer.
Because of its form, I refer to the Broad/Erie/Germantown intersection as "the Times Square of Philadelphia," with Germantown Avenue playing the role of Broadway, Erie Avenue playing 42d Street and Broad Street playing 7th Avenue.
I don't know whether Muinteoir included it in his mental map of parts of North Philadelphia to avoid at any time of day, but if he did, then I'm going to argue that it should be removed from it. When I lived on Germantown's east side, I would on occasion come home to my block to find the block to its west cordoned off by crime-scene tape, and there was a shootout on it one night where a stray bullet found its way into the apartment above a takeout chicken joint at my corner and injured a guy sleeping in his bedroom. Since moving to Germantown's nicer and less crime-ridden west side, I have yet to experience any issue waiting for buses at Broad and Erie, even late at night. That hotel project appears to be stalled, but once it's finished, I think we will see a new and brighter chapter being written for the gateway to Nicetown. (BTW, I love the slogan of the Nicetown Community Development Corporation: "Working Together to Put the Nice Back in the Town.")
Moving on to other cities:
When the list is updated, change the name of the St. Louis neighborhood to the Central West End and add the neighboring Grand Center to the list. Grand Center is St. Louis' performing arts district, home to the Fabulous Fox Theater and Powell Hall, where the St. Louis Symphony plays. I'd also add the Delmar Loop, which straddles the St. Louis-University City line.
And if we're going to go down to the level of Milwaukee, Sacramento, and Fresno*, we need to add another city to the list:
Kansas City: Westport, Valentine-Roanoke, Country Club Plaza (Suburbs: Kansas City, Kansas; Independence. One might argue that KCK should not be called a "suburb", but it has less than half of KCMo's population [and suburban Overland Park, KS, outstrips it as well]. Like Wilmington in the Philadelphia area, it's a satellite city of sorts, as its own growth is ringed by that of suburbs tied to the Missouri city.)
One more question: Are urbane places eligible? If so, Philadelphia has some very urbane outlying neighborhoods (Chestnut Hill especially) and suburbs (Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Jenkintown).
*Yeah, Fresno definitely shouldn't be on this list, but if Cincinnati and Indianapolis are, Kansas City definitely should be.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 12-04-2023 at 06:31 AM..
Houston - Midtown, Montrose area, TMC, maybe Galleria area (It's not THAT urban but it's still a large secondary business district) or Upper Kirby area.
Suburb - Galveston? There's not really any old urban suburbs in the metro area.
Once again an OP excludes Cleveland (at the expense of places like KC, and Indy) as if Cleveland somehow doesn't exist...
... funny.
This despite the fact, per the OP's criteria, Cleveland has more urban-ized neighborhoods and bubrs than most cities its size -- certainly more than KC or Indy ... or Sac-Town or Charlotte ... over Vegas, Tampa, Milwaukee, etc, etc., etc...
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